Carlin: Wall Street Owns Washington

“H.R. 2847 – July 1, 2014 the U.S. Dollar Will Officially Collapse


I found this one… anyone know anything about this????????

On July 1, 2014 the U.S. Dollar Will Officially Collapse; because, on this date, U.S. House of Representative Bill “H.R. 2847” goes into full effect, making it essentially impossible for Americans to protect their savings

Sounds like the USA…. at 47 minutes on…

GLOBAL CURRENCY RESET New DVD From no spam

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From Ron Paul Daily…. 

Obama’s new July 1st 2014 law will shock most Americans

Dear Reader,

We’ve been critical of several Obama Administration policies over the past few years…

But a new law set to go into effect on July 1st, 2014 (less than six months from now), might be the Administration’s worst decision yet.

On this date, Title V of House of Representative Bill #2847, known as “FATCA,” goes into effect.

We believe this could precipitate a huge collapse in the U.S. dollar… and a rapid decrease in our standard of living.

Of course, we’re not the only ones who believe this new U.S. law is going to be a disaster for our country and American citizens.

http://www.dailypaul.com/312861/obama-s-new-july-1st-2014-law-will-shock-most-americans

Elite Not Ready To Collapse Economy YET – no spam

Starting July 1, 2014, FATCA will require FFIs to provide annual reports to … the billions of dollars for foreign and U.S. financial institutions as well as for ….. to the House Amendment to the Senate Amendment to H.R. 2847,

Christine LaGarde Reset

 

Karla9999

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  • farang

    Farang@aol.com watch me collapse on my knees as I have sex with a sperm whale…

    • David Deloria

      So far no state has passed a otherwise sex animal marriage act yet but they will

  • http://batman-news.com MamaBearNC

    Here’s the truth: It requires foreign banks to find any American account holders and disclose their balances, receipts, and withdrawals to the US Internal Revenue Service (IRS), or be subject to a 30-percent withholding tax
    THIS ESSENTIALLY SHINES A LIGHT ON ALL THAT MONEY FOLKS LIKE YOU WHO RUN THIS MAG WOULD LIKE TO HIDE…..I’m glad you’ll be stopped.

    • Brian Elliotte

      This just goes to show, the collapse of the dollar is all pre-planned. We,ve been lied to far too long about history and how we are being run by foreign banks, corporations and the Vatican. The fed had most of the men that would have opposed it’s hijacking of our wages and country, killed on the “unsinkable” Titanic right before they slipped it in on Christmas Eve in 1913. They owe us, BIG!!!

      • David Deloria

        Only the third branch Judiciary the judges have to pay our way outta bankruptcy since 1933 the emergency banking act.

      • Charles

        The Vatican is a very distant also ran. The Crown runs the show. The Pilgrims Society is The Crown’s world influence network. This is a Crown organization—not a Vatican organization. The Papal Knights of Malta are powerful, but are still distant second. The Crown has held the whip hand in world power over the Vatican since the (Catholic) Spanish Armada fell to Britain in the English Channel in 1588. Central Banking is a British—not a Roman Catholic—invention. The Windsors, sponsors of The Pilgrims Society, are the world’s largest landowners. The Vatican runs Vatican City and all Catholic outposts worldwide. The Pilgrims Society runs the rest and appears to be planning a Russia versus China showdown so the Anglo-Americans can have the same world power they had in autumn 1945.

      • disqus_juFiCPKV6h

        That’s right. Those actions by presidents and the members of congress are an act of insurection and rebellion against the United States, and under Section 4 of the 14th amendment, we have no obligation to any financial debts made under those circumstances.

        That’s right, the 17+ trillion dollar deficit actually is owed by those infdividuals…Not the people.

        • tentonsonuthin

          In fact the civil war in Yugoslavia was started the same way.

      • Michelle Harte

        Yet when we disagree we are called a racist since our “leader” is black. It is that simple.

        • Guest

          I find it funny that it has to be that way. I’m black and I don’t understand that. I guess I would be a racist too since everything that clown does I disagree with.

        • Ken

          find it funny that it has to be that way. I’m black and I don’t understand that. I guess I would be a racist too since everything that clown does I disagree with.

    • Dave

      why is the government entitled to someone else’s money? quick question do you have more than one vehicle? if so go down and give the extra one away. share the wealth. exactly libs never put their money where their moths are.

      • callahan connor

        Worse, it’s even more scary when they actually DO put their money where their mouths are.

        Case in point? Hizzoner Mayor Bloomberg.

        While I disagree with his politics, while in office as New York City Mayor, he took a one dollar per year salary and then spent over $600 million dollars of his OWN money on things for New Yorkers and on getting the job done in New York.

        But that’s just one guy. Quite a rare guy.

        He’s probably the only one who ever will actually put his/her money on the line . . .

      • squint9

        Gee, Dave. Ever hear of a little thing called income / sales / etc. taxes?!?! You like living in a country with a decent infrastructure (highways, electricity, net gas, etc.), safety (NEC standards, etc.), and organized protection (police, nat guard, armed forces, etc.), right? Think all of that happened magically? Nope. Taxes paid/pay for quite a bit of it. If you think you don’t need it, move to the country in Sudan or Nigeria or Moscow for a couple years. Be sure to drop us a post card when you can. LOL I suspect we’ll never hear from you again. I was in Italy once. The roads were lousy and then we hit a nice clean stretch that looked like it had just been paved. Woo hoo. Drove the rest of the way in comfort … until we got to the exit and got handed a bill for handful of Euros (about US$28)! Yep. Turns out we were on a French-owned toll road … came to about $1 a kilometer. Aren’t you glad you don’t commute on that every day! LOL

        • DirtyB

          Ever hear of living within your means? The US budget is 70% Social Security, Medicare, and “transfer payments”, 20% Defense, and 10% covers EVERYTHING ELSE -infrastructure, safety, protection, tech research, agriculture, education, etc.
          Ironic that you’d point to failed socialist/marxist countries as countries you wouldn’t want to live in, when the “progressive”/social democrat agenda is bigger government and more socialism.
          With average earnings of a little over $50K, the average taxpaying citizen is forced to pay about 65-70% to the government in combined taxes (income, sales, property, excise, etc)
          And FYI, as of 2010, taxes only paid for about 60% of the federal govt spending – they borrowed the rest. The infamous $1.5 TRILLION deficit (that’s one year!), that most dems dismiss because 1) we can always just print more money, 2) we can tax the rich more, and 3) it was GW’s fault anyway.

    • DOC DOOLITTLE

      so you are one of the unintelligent sheep that are so easily manipulated by envy. I hope you truly love your station in life because you will never rise above it those who you worship have their way. What fools like you never understand is that this isn’t designed to go after the “money folks” as you call them. It is a cleverly disguised way to keep you a slave. Money folk always have a multitude of ways to hide their money or keep it from the government. Remember the people who make the rules are those with the money and they do not act against their own interest. Nothing will be stopped but those who have money investing it and some it of flowing to you. BAAAA BAAAA

      • Nathan Merrill

        You can never prevent all murders, but that doesn’t mean we don’t put murderers in jail.

        Likewise, you can never prevent all moochers like yourself from existing, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t go after you anyway.

        Scumbags always whine when they’re going to get caught.

        Maybe you should start paying your taxes and stop mooching, eh?

        • oiltrdr

          “we shouldn’t go after you anyway.”
          you consider yourself included in the empowered “we”.?
          hilarious.

          • Nathan Merrill

            Of course I do. I don’t get in trouble with the law.

        • Ken

          the top 20% pay 90% of federal taxes. How much more should they pay?

          • Nathan Merrill

            The top 25% pay 87% of federal income taxes and hold 67.6% of the wealth. The next 25% of Americans pay 10.5% of the income taxes but hold only 20% of the wealth. The bottom 50% pay 2.4% of income taxes and hold 11% of the wealth.

            This isn’t a terrible distribution, and is probably pretty close to right. That being said, there definitely needs to be some fixing on the top end; they need to remove the capital gains loophole, for one thing, because it is an absurd loophole and simply should not exist; money is money, and we should not encourage people not to work by lowering their taxes if they earn their money other ways.

          • callahan connor

            The problem with your argument is not just about paying what’s fair.

            The true reason why those at the bottom end of the scale are there is because of a lack of knowledge and education, not the amount of money or wealth that they own.

            You can take all of Donald Trump’s money away, and because of who and what he knows about how to make money, he’ll likely have it back twice as fast as he got it the first time . . . because of his knowledge about how to make money in the first place. That’s why wealthy people who lose their money often come back and become wealthy again – sometimes even wealthier than the first time – because of their knowledge and their different perspective from the poor and middle class about economics.

            One way to tip the scales is to start teaching different subjects in school. Just about every high school student graduates knowing the Billboard Top 10 songs on the charts and likely also knows all the words to all those songs, but they don’t know what the 10 most likely to succeed businesses are or what the 10 most likely to fail businesses are when they graduate high school or college . . . because nobody teaches it to them.

            This is also the reason why immigrants of some nations can come to the US and do quite well, because even if they don’t speak English when they get here there are places where they can go to find out what the 10 businesses that are most likely to succeed in the US are . . . and then they choose to open one of those types of businesses and do better than many citizens who were born here but never learned much about starting a business.

            Yet this knowledge is not that hard to find out if you know that you need to look for it and where to look.

          • Nathan Merrill

            This is simply false.

            The more money you have, the easier it is to make more money. Starting your own business takes capital; having more capital makes you more capable of starting your own business. Having connections via family members helps you as well; you can not only better find investors, but also better find help – especially free help – from family and family friends and even just helpful associates.

            Many rich people have no actual understanding of how to make money from the bottom up.

            The reason “wealthy people who lose their money often come back and become wealthy again” is because wealthy people almost never actually lose all of their money, and they don’t lose other things – like connections.

            The reality is that people who are born with a lot of capital have an inherent, huge advantage over those who lack it. Merely being able to live with your family without paying for anything is a huge benefit that is often overlooked.

            And the idea that education will fix this entirely is false.

            The idea that most high school students know the Billboard top 10 is simply false; the vast majority of them do not.

            The 10 most likely to succeed businesses and the 10 most likely to fail businesses aren’t known to anyone – the idea that people actually know these things is actually false. A lot of investment is guesswork, which is why the average investment banker does more POORLY than the S&P 500. In reality, there’s a good chance that the people on top got lucky, at least as far as investing goes. If you start your own business, there are things which make a difference – but there are also things which are outside of your control which can screw you over. Look at MySpace vs Facebook vs endless other social networking sites – Facebook’s victory there was far from assured, and if you rewound time, you might very well have a totally different outcome.

            Let me tell you the real, hard truth:

            People lie to themselves constantly about how much of what they did is because they know what they’re doing. They want to attribute all of their successes to themselves, and all of their failures to bad luck. But in reality, chance plays a role on both ends.

            The idea that education is the great equalizer is false – even if you get the same education as a rich kid, the rich kid is vastly more likely to end up rich than you are, and it isn’t because of values or anything else – it is because of the things they started out with, the capital, that the other person lacked.

          • Elton Robb

            That’s not true about Donald’s knowledge. It’s his world view that makes him rich. :)

          • mark

            The “evil rich” pay anywhere from 45% in states with no income tax to 65% in new york. How would you feel if you had half of your paycheck taken by taxes? How much is enough? And if you think I am one of those “evil rich”, then you are wrong. I work 50-60 hours a week to scratch out around $30,000 a year. I think the rich pay too much and I think lazy people should get of thier couches and stop mooching off the “rich”. Which according to the irs is anybody making over $125,000 or married making over $250,000 a year. we have too many ablebodied people living off the OUR tax dollar which is mostly from the rich. You are entitled to your own opinion, but just because you have an opinion, it doesn’t mean you are right. FYI, capitol gains tax breaks incentivise the rich to invest instead of just sitting on thier money. This country was founded on hard work and freedom, and rewarded it instead of punishing it like it does now.

          • Nathan Merrill

            Uh, the incentive to invest exists regardless. The idea that the rich would simply sit on their money without it is false; if you make more money, you make more money, regardless of taxation.

            The idea that you are punished for working hard is false.

            And if you work 50-60 hours per week to scratch out $30k/year, then you’re a sucker or you have no useful job skills.

            Also, the idea that the rich pay 45-65% is simply false; you need to look at the actual, effective tax rate on them, which is actually quite low, especially in states which rely on sales tax instead of income tax.

          • Michael Savage

            You make $30K a year and you think the rich pay too much tax. You are a damn fool!!

    • Michelle Harte

      Get a job you mooch and stop gobbling down Obama’s free handouts paid for by those who work for a living.

      • Nathan Merrill

        The entire purpose of this is to prevent worthless mooches like yourself from hiding your money overseas. If you live in America and don’t pay your fair share of taxes, you’re a mooch and taking advantage of everyone else.

        • PammyJ

          Please define what a “fair share of taxes” is?

          • Nathan Merrill

            The more money you make, the more taxes you pay. Its the only fair way; we who have the most benefit the most from having a stable society, as we have the most to lose.

          • PammyJ

            Your problem is you are regurgitating political spin lines. A “fair share” is a matter of opinion. It is a generic term that politicians use that they cannot be held accountable for. The sad part is people like you buy into their rhetoric.

          • Nathan Merrill

            I’m afraid you’re the one regurgitating rhetoric; I’ve done actual numeric analysis on this stuff. Income tax and similar wealth taxes are the only really fair way to tax people, and the more money you make, the more you can afford to pay in taxes. It really isn’t that hard to understand, and it isn’t hard to understand that the government gives us benefits, too, even if we pay more in taxes than we get back out of them directly, because we benefit from the society said taxes support.

          • PammyJ

            My point about you using generic spin lines as the government does still stands. I agree with the concept of taxes. I do not agree with the system we have now or the method of collecting. I think a graduated flat tax or a National Sales tax would be more effective. I will throw some numbers at you that are generally accurate. The top 1% makes 19% of the income. In all fairness they should be paying 19% of the Federal taxes. They pay around 37% of Federal taxes. The top 10% pay around 71% of Federal taxes. The top 52% pay 98% of Federal taxes. The problem is the bottom 48% pay 2% of Federal taxes. It is time for the bottom end to pay their “fair share” as you say.

          • Nathan Merrill

            This is simply ridiculous.

            First off, sales tax is just an awful idea; it is the single worst method of taxation, because it directly punishes consumption. The less you consume, the less taxes you pay; this is very bad, because it discourages people from spending money, as it is effectively increasing the price of everything by 10%, if not more due to the fact that you end up paying more for everything else, too, which supports the production of said item.

            Secondly, sales tax is a bad idea because it encourages people to buy things from other countries over buying them here, and it discourages people from buying things from the US when they could buy them elsewhere.

            Thirdly, sales tax is bad because the rich end up buying things which are exempt from sales tax, like real estate, meaning that a higher percentage of the purchases of the rich go untaxed by it than the poor. Indeed, the poorer you are, the more of your income you end up spending on sales tax, because the less you spend your money on is exempt.

            Sales tax is a means of regressive taxation – taxing the poor more than the rich. This is obviously stupid and everyone who suggests it clearly has no understanding of economics whatsoever, or is simply evil.

            As for the idea of a flat tax being fair, that is simply moronic. It is exactly the opposite of fair, because the wealthier you are, the further you are from being destitute. If you are on the edge of destitution, and are required to pay a flat tax which makes you destitute, then you are being screwed, while the rich person is not. The reason graduated taxation is fair is precisely because it taxes you more based on how far you are away from being destitute, and as such always leaves you better off than someone who makes less money than you do, but worse off than someone who makes more money than you do. The wealthy can afford to pay more in because they are further away from being destitute and therefore even though they pay more, it hurts them less.

            Moreover, the wealthy actually benefit vastly more from the government than poor people do. Not only does the government employ vast numbers of people, and hand out contracts to vast numbers more people (and many major corporations the government contracts with are themselves run by wealthy people, so some of that money goes back to them), but the rich simply have far more to lose than the poor do. The less worthwhile you are, the less worthwhile your life is, and the less you have to lose. This is why suicide bombings are rare in the US and common in more destitute portions of the world – the poor people have less to lose and thus value their own lives less. The more valuable your life is, the less likely you are to risk it doing something stupid like committing a crime or blowing yourself up or what have you. Poor people are desperate people, and desperate people are dangerous people, which is precisely why the welfare state exists – it keeps the poor from eating the rich.

            But it is more than that, as by making the poor richer, we have a better source of labor, we have fewer poor people in absolute numbers, and our poor are much less poor than those of other countries and thus better behaved.

            The idea that paying based on what fraction of the national wealth you get is absurd because if you have to split that same amount of wealth with far more people you are getting far less individually. It is just reality.

            Romney pays a lower tax rate than many people who make less money than he does; that’s clearly unfair. Getting rid of things like the capital gains loophole makes things as fair as possible.

          • PammyJ

            In theory the National Sales tax would be at the same rate as people were paying previously. The “rich” would pay more. There would be no “tax exempt” items. Everyone gets the pleasure of paying. Isn’t that the “fair share” you liberals are looking for? The sales tax would apply to everything regardless of where it is made. It would also flush out the underground economy for people working under the table and not paying any taxes. Everyone gets the pleasure of paying.
            You might have noticed that I said a “graduated” flat tax. Once again the “rich” would pay more. Once again, it would flush out the underground economy. Do you really think the current system of taxation we have is effective? You specifically point out a problem you have with the amount Romney pays. He followed the tax laws. They decided to create an incentive to investors and he took advantage of that. It seems your problem is with your Congressman and Senator. Do you notice you constantly repeat the class warfare spin lines?

          • Nathan Merrill

            You mean like how you constantly spew rhetoric against the poor, as if they’re the source of all your problems?

            Yeah, I notice that. You’re kind of blatant.

            Its pretty sad really. The Republicans love to play the “class warfare” card.

            And yes, the capital gains exemption is garbage. It didn’t used to exist, people like Romney and rich politicians created it for their own benefit and the benefit of their buddies. It is just reality. It is garbage and should be removed.

            As far as “sales tax would apply to everything” – really? So it would apply to houses? To all real estate? To all equipment you purchased for your business?

            You’re screwing people over that way. The idea that it would “flush out” the underground economy is nonsense – they’ll continue to break the law no matter what. I mean, the real underground economy is stuff like tax havens and offshore bank accounts; far more money is involved there than the “underground economy” of drug smugglers and their ilk.

            Do I think the current system of taxation is effective? It isn’t perfect, but it can definitely be improved.

            Your goal is to make a much worse system than the present one.

            Get rid of tax exemptions and the current system works a lot better.

          • PammyJ

            At least you have been exposed for the liberal that you are. Good luck with that. What could ever make you think the government can spend your money better than you can?

          • Nathan Merrill

            Because many things that the government purchases cost far more than almost anyone pays in taxes as an individual.

          • PammyJ

            What will you think when the government tells you that you are too old and the care you need costs too much?

          • Nathan Merrill

            I’ll be glad I have money?

            There’s nothing wrong with the government making good economic decisions. If the treatment isn’t going to make you live any longer, or isn’t a good value ($50k/year is a fairly good rule of thumb, though it varies by agency) then the government should spend its money elsewhere.

            There isn’t an infinite amount of money, you know.

          • PammyJ

            You might think that is an acceptable decision by the government. I do not. It isn’t the government’s place to tell you what you can or cannot have. What has the government done to make you think they can make “good economic decisions”? The money I earn does not belong to the government. If I earn it it belongs to me.

          • Nathan Merrill

            It is absolutely the government’s place to decide what it is going to pay for on your behalf, which is precisely what we were talking about here – public health care. Medicare, medicaid – these are government programs. So is social security.

            As for the idea that the government doesn’t make good economic decisions – you don’t, either. The government makes good decisions and bad decisions like everyone else, but the idea that you don’t need to contribute to the infrastructure, education, common defense, ect. just makes you a leech on the system. You need to contribute to these things; governments exist for a reason.

            No government, and you end up in a third world hellhole. There’s a reason that countries that aren’t hellholes have real governments with real enforcement powers and real taxes.

          • PammyJ

            No one is going to pay for my health care. I am a responsible person and I make sure that I have adequate coverage to meet my needs. I do not think that the government is the answer to my problems. I take care of myself and my family. You are right about this discussion being about public health care. I do not think the government belongs in our health care. You seem to think the government will solve all of your problems. Why don’t you consider the thought of being personally responsible for yourself instead of counting on others to pay your way?

            How do you know that I don’t make good financial decisions? You do not know me. Since I am not dependent on the government to take care of me I would suggest that I must have made some good decisions along the way. I never said I do not think we should pay for the inherent responsibilities of the government like police, fire, the military and infrastructure maintenance and repair. Those are the responsibility of the government and should be funded adequately. You might notice I did not say health care. I do not believe that health care is a legitimate purpose of the government.

            Please tell us who suggested no government. You are exaggerating your comment to the extent it is little more than hyperbole. No one has suggested that we have no government. Many have stated they want limited and effective government. That would not be a government that tries to solve all of your problems, tell us what we can and cannot have and take most of your money in the form of taxes.

          • Nathan Merrill

            Because people aren’t personally responsible. Have you ever MET people? They’re idiots. George W Bush is smarter than the vast majority of Americans, and George W Bush was no prize.

            People are irresponsible morons. Look at the bankers, who made extremely bad investments then begged for the government to bail them out. Look at all the various contractors that the US government employs. Look at all the automobile companies. Look at all the people who lost their homes, or who bought overpriced homes and complained about it. Look at all the people who think the stock market can only go up. Look at all the people who don’t have insurance, get hurt, and go to the ER where you are legally obligated to treat them regardless of whether or not they can pay – who do you think ends up paying for that? The rest of us, that’s who. And it is not as if they can ask an unconscious person whether or not they can afford to pay for treatment, and we, as a society, have decided it is deeply unethical to let people die on the streets.

            How do I know you don’t make good financial decisions? I don’t. But you are just one person. There are three hundred and fifteen MILLION Americans, and the vast, vast majority of them do not make good financial decisions. The odds of you making good decisions are, quite frankly, rather low, because of the people I have met who complain about this sort of thing, almost all of them were very bad at managing their personal finances, and blamed all their failures on the government and everyone else but themselves.

            And when they make bad decisions, those of us who are responsible end up paying MORE to fix things than if we had just done it right in the first place. That’s why socialized medicine is good – we end up being on the hook for their treatment regardless, so it is cheaper for us to pay for preventative treatment than it is to pay for them to go into the ER with some sort of medical emergency. Moreover, socialized medicine allows us to push back against the monopolies – if the US government is negotiating with drug companies on the behalf of everyone together, you get a better price than if you have to negotiate as an individual. And we in the US DO end up getting screwed for exactly this reason – medical treatment, on a per treatment basis, costs twice as much (or more!) here than it does overseas for exactly this reason – they can, and do, screw us as much as possible, and unless you have good knowledge of the system, they will suck every cent out of your pockets and then some.

            The idea that there is such a thing as a “limited and effective” government is just a lie that people tell; are you familiar with the Articles of Confederation? They were an utter disaster.

            All governments are limited, and all governments are effective, but how great their limits are and how effective they are varies from place to place. My goal is to get the highest ROI possible out of the government, which means I don’t care how big it is, I care how effective my ROI is. The more I get from them relative to my investment, the better off I am.

            The government cannot solve all of your problems, and that isn’t my goal. My goal is to make sure that the government keeps the country as nice a place to live as possible, because it benefits me to be in a nice place to live, not a third world hellhole, or a place that wants to be one, like Mississippi; the average life expectancy in Mississippi is below that of Peru, which is, quite frankly, deeply embarrassing and sad on many, many levels.

            Socialized health care is good because it prevents companies from privatizing profits while publicizing costs, and because of the nature of health care as being a system which is very inimical to negotiation on price and suchlike; people who are sick are not in a good position to negotiate, and frequently don’t know that they’re supposed to.

            Preventing tax evasion is good because it prevents people and companies from doing the same thing, privatizing risks and publicizing costs.

            Education is important because it makes for a better society to live in, a better workforce, more peaceful people, fewer people popping out excessive numbers of babies, the works.

            There are a lot of things which are very important for the government to do, and yes, welfare is one of them. It sucks that some people live off of the government dime and don’t give anything back, but it is still preferable to them turning to crime and then living off the government dime in jail, where it is much more expensive to keep them.

          • PammyJ

            So you are saying we are a nation of idiots and the government must take care of us? When the Obamacare discussions were happening the estimates were that 85% had adequate health care coverage. Why didn’t the government just try to take care of those falling through the cracks in the system? It would have been much cheaper. Obamacare is little more than a power grab. I have asked you before but have not got an answer. Why do you think the government can spend your money better than you can? I still say that health care is not a legitimate purpose of the government.

          • Nathan Merrill

            We spend twice as much on health care as anyone else and don’t get twice as good of results, which suggests to me that something is terribly wrong with our health care system.

            Health care is a legitimate thing for the government to do; in fact, even prior to Obamacare, over half of US medical costs were already borne by the US government thanks to Medicare and Medicaid – as it turns out, old people use a lot of health care.

          • PammyJ

            Why have we spent more than many other countries on our health care? Maybe because the government does not pay 100% to MDs for medicaid? The MDs pass the cost on to the paying customers. btw With Obamacare the government still pays less than 100% to MDs. We have a third party paying system. People do not shop for the best deal. They shop for convenience. Obamacare will not solve that problem. I agree we need health care reform. Obamacare will not fix the problems we have.

            There is a big difference between giving health care coverage (i.e. medicare) to those that cannot afford their own to what we have with Obamacare. The government is taking over the health insurance industry. It is at the point that the insurance companies do the administrative work and follow the volumes of regulations that the government requires of them.

          • callahan connor

            Capital gains come from investment in something for the long term.

            But here’s the thing. If you want more of something, you need to subsidize it. If you want less of something, then tax it.

            Like it or not, unfortunately that’s how things work. And it’s just human nature. So good luck with changing any of that. You’d have to alter the collective DNA of everyone on the planet.

          • mark

            Sounds like you were the one who started out using class warefare. Sadly some people think having knowledge means having understanding of said knowledge. Are you old enough to remember the U.S.S.R.? Communisim will always fail, and that is exactly what “fair share” is all about. Some people wont open their minds and listen

          • Nathan Merrill

            Are you old enough to remember Africa? Remember, capitalism will always fail.

            Quit being stupid.

            Here’s reality: every single developed country in the world is a mixed economy, without exception. They all are a mixture of capitalism and socialism. That includes the United States.

            The idea that socialism is bad is borne out of pure propaganda, I’m afraid. Communism sucks as a pure system, but then, so does capitalism; neither actually works in real life, because both systems are deeply and inherently flawed. Too much state control, you end up with too few people making decisions, and those people can make bad decisions very easily and screw everything up; pure capitalism becomes monopolism, as people with capital screw over everyone else as much as possible and destroy people who would try to compete with them.

            The idea that paying your fair share of taxes has anything to do with communism is incredibly idiotic.

          • Ken

            the key phrase is how much money “I” make. Its my money. Earned by MY work. How much of MY money should I be compelled (forced) to hand over to an inefficient wasteful government? 50%? 70%? 90%? 100%?

          • Nathan Merrill

            Well, not really. The money is issued by the federal government and is only worth anything because the federal government and various other people say it is. If the US government collapsed, your money would rapidly become worthless.

            But even aside from that fact, the reality is that while we may earn money via our work, we benefit from living on a society which allows us to do so easily and safely; we benefit from the public education system, the criminals who don’t shank us, the militaries that aren’t conquering us, ect.

          • callahan connor

            They can’t. Because what’s fair to you might not be fair to them or the government, and that answer of “fair” might not be fair to somebody else in charge.

            The whole idea of “fair share” is not only subject to change, but is actually a myth.

          • PammyJ

            That is why politicians use that term. It is a matter of opinion and they cannot be held accountable for it.

        • A Friend

          Why is it that someone who doesn’t want to give up as much of their hard earned money to go to the federal government to waste in a muriad of ways is a moocher taking advantage of everyone else, but the person who chooses not to get a job and live off of food stamps and other welfare subsidies that are paid for by the person you describe as a moocher is not?

          • Nathan Merrill

            Because the person who has no job frequently is pretty much worthless to begin with. We subsidize them with welfare to keep them in such a condition that they don’t turn to crime; the more you have to lose, the less likely you are to do bad things. And it works; as poor Americans get wealthier (in absolute terms), they commit fewer crimes. They may be “moochers” in the sense that they are getting something they don’t “deserve”, but it is better for society for them to get that than to turn to crime and shank people in the streets for their wallets or break into our houses to steal our stuff.

            People who make money and don’t pay taxes are moochers; everyone needs to contribute money towards keeping society functioning. That includes police, fire protection, roads, schools, clean air and water, environmental protections, zoning laws, those pretty trees we have along the roads, traffic lights, the military, DARPA, NASA, various spying agencies, customs agents, the FDA, the court system, and innumerable other tasks that the government does to keep us all in good condition.

            And yes, that includes giving money to the disabled, the old, the infirm, and the worthless so that bad things don’t happen as a result of our neglect, so there aren’t starving people on the street, so we don’t have slums like the shantytowns of the third world.

            If you make money and don’t pay taxes, then you’re mooching off of everyone else who is doing so in order to keep society functioning, and you are far worse than the worthless person, because the worthless person, they’re worthless; they aren’t going to contribute anyway. But you? You are worth something. You can contribute. But you choose not to. Which really makes you an enemy of all of society, because you are trying to screw over everyone else so you can live better.

            Too bad for you. You want to live in a civilized society, you have to pay your taxes. Otherwise, you aren’t welcome here. Go live in some third world hellhole where you don’t have to pay taxes and the only thing keeping the poor people from shooting you is the armed guards you personally have to pay for, who might turn on you and kill you anyway or help kidnap your children for money.

          • A Friend

            I pay plenty of taxes and have for years. I just was asking about your skewed vision and your answer just showed how warped it is.

            I believe as Ben Franklin did, “I am for doing good to the poor, but…I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed…that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.”

            I give to nonprofits to help the less fortunate, which is how I prefer to spend my money – to programs who properly screen to make sure the recipients are in need and who will actually try to help those people improve their lives and get out of their situation by finding a job and making it on their own. Government programs do neither of those things. They are not designed to help people, but instead to keep people dependent on the system because then they will vote to keep those programs going. Those programs are so rampant with fraud, abuse and waste, it is just sad. I could go on and on about the money wasted in the federal government. The richest part of America is DC and the programs you support further create a divide between the rich, political elite and the unwashed masses. They continue to make policies that make it harder to make something of yourself if you are not one of them.

          • Nathan Merrill

            Ben Franklin was wrong. If doing nothing for the poor made them make themselves richer, then Africa would be the wealthiest place on the planet.

            Instead, Africa is a hellhole.

            The nicest countries in the world – the wealthiest countries in the world – keep their poor from starving in the streets. The idea that you can drive people out of poverty is a fantasy propagated by people who want it to be true, but it has no resemblance whatsoever to reality – in reality, the less poor the poor are, the more likely they are to escape from poverty.

            It is just the way the world works, because, as it turns out, the better off you are, the more ability you have to improve yourself and to be a better person.

            The government does more to making society equal than anything else via education and welfare programs.

          • A Friend

            Ben Franklin was a genius who made phenomenal history advancements. Who are you? Africa isn’t a hellhole because free men are allowed to reap their rewards and suffer the consequences of their failures. It is not free from totalitarianism, which is what keeps people from being able to better themselves. You obviously do not understand what made America unique and successful and why people from all over the world have historically wanted to come live here.

          • Nathan Merrill

            Ben Franklin lived in the 18th century. I live in the 21st century. I have more knowledge available at my fingertips in seconds than Benjamin Franklin had available to him in his entire lifetime.

            Smart people can be wrong, and smart people frequently are wrong. Being smart does not prevent you from being wrong.

            The reality is that trying to drive people out of poverty has never once worked, if you look throughout history; poor people being poor does not mean that they all become rich. In fact, people were poor for MOST of history.

            The truth is that totalitarianism does not prevent people from being able to better themselves. It is just an excuse, a lie you tell yourself to preserve your fantasy.

          • Arthur

            The last thing I want is to “drive someone out of poverty”. For God’s sake it’s all I can afford just to keep them in the poverty they are in. The fact is “they”, the impoverished masses are out-reproducing “us” the dumb working class that works 50-60 hours a week to make a decent living. Additionally, they will be able to cash in on entitlements for their entire lives while I have a finite ability to perform my job and pay for said entitlements. I’m starting to think the anarchy you describe where someone shanks me in the street may actually be an abrupt but welcome change to a system that “milks” off my labor until I’m no longer able to provide it. Honestly, I’m just super happy they have cell phones. I mean, I can’t think how many times I’ve thought about how I would just go on a shanking spree if I didn’t have a cell phone. Conceptually speaking, “poor” Americans are far richer than poor just about anybodies anywhere else.

          • Nathan Merrill

            And yet many people on the right are strongly against handing out free birth control and abortions to poor people, even though it would save us all a lot of money in the long run if they had fewer kids.

            Also, you can probably stop worrying about the Hispanics; recent studies suggest that while new immigrants aren’t the brightest bunch, it is because they haven’t fully undergone the Flynn Effect yet; after two generations, their children appear to be as smart as anyone else (or very close to it).

          • Arthur

            Like it or not, if you redistributed all the wealth in this country equally amongst everyone here, it would eventually end up almost exactly where it is today. Handing an alcoholic a check means that the owner of a liquor store gets rich, not the alcoholic. Metaphorically speaking, of course.

          • Nathan Merrill

            Well, also literally speaking. But that’s beside the point.

            I wouldn’t say it would end up almost exactly where it is today though. A lot of the old money would not regain its status, nor would the Waldens. Actually, there’s a good chance there’d be a pretty big shakeup, given that a lot of businesses fail and it isn’t always clear that the ones which succeeded were really necessarily all that much better.

            Though it would probably more realistically redistribute things between some of the middle class, the upper-middle class and the rich, rather than the population as a whole. Some poor people probably would cease to be poor, and their children probably would be less likely to be poor, but I suspect very few of them would become rich as a result.

          • callahan connor

            Then explain Dr. Ben Carson . . .

          • mark

            Way to go, I agree all the way, also statistics agree with ben franklin

          • mark

            Have you checked the crime stats lately? Its out of control. So much for your theory

          • Elton Robb

            hmm. Why did we revolt against the Crown in the first place?

        • Samantha

          so I gotta know – how many “mooches” have any money to hide overseas??? the law is not going to be enacted if it is against wealthy people so the only people that it could effect is the middle class with their 401K’s invested in international funds…

          • callahan connor

            “. . . the only people that it could effect is the middle class with their 401K’s . . .”

            Exactly.

            I seem to remember that back when everybody was making such a big stink about Romney’s overseas accounts, he informed President Obama that Obama too had money overseas . . . tucked inside a pension plan that made overseas investments. Yet Obama claimed he was unaware of it after trying to say that Romney did not know what he was talking about.

            Quite amusing, except that it showed exactly how confusing all of this is.

            By the way, has anybody else seen the declaration Donald Rumsfeld attaches to his personal income tax filings every year? It basically says “I have ‘no idea’ whether this is accurate or not, and neither does my wife, and the accountants and lawyers I have hired to ensure I get it right don’t know for sure either.”

            What’s most ironic is, he’s been attaching this to his tax returns for the last 15 years.

        • Ken

          wonder if you’re aware of the fact that most of Obama’s advisers have offshore accounts.

          • Nathan Merrill

            I wouldn’t be terribly surprised. Why does that matter?

        • mark

          mooch

          mo?oCH/

          verb

          informal

          1.

          ask for or obtain (something) without paying for it.

          So if that is the definition of a mooch, how can you call someone who avoids taxes a mooch? You could say tax evader, but except in your own little world, words mean what they mean. You are the mooch, not tax evaders. Also if the government didnt tax so heavily, there wouldnt be a reason to do this. Other countries where this occurs, dont tax like we do. That is why this happens. If you want to point fingers for tax evasion, you might point one of them at the government first for causing this problem. Thought from a lowly carpenter with who thinks things through, not a rich man

          • Nathan Merrill

            They obtain the benefits of living in our society without paying for it.

            Ergo, they are by definition mooches.

            No matter how much the government taxes, people will try to avoid taxes and pay as little tax as possible. This is reality. Anyone who says otherwise is lying or ignorant of reality. People will minimize their taxes. The cause is that rich people ask for loopholes and politicians are either rich themselves and allow it or are too stupid to realize it is a bad idea.

            Other countries have even worse tax evasion rates than the US does; Greece is bankrupt as a result of massive tax evasion.

          • SgtSlaughter

            Where did they obtain the funds to mooch from our benefits without paying for it? (cite please, like a source and stuff).

            A mooch is the idiot a$$clown who is still sleeping on my couch and refuses to GET A FREAKING JOB!.

          • Nathan Merrill

            If you live in the US, you benefit from our infrastructure, our military, our police, our fire protection, our education system, our environmental regulation, ect.

            Tax evaders live on everyone’s couch.

          • SgtSlaughter

            Infrastructure = crumbling (because of corrupt lawyers and politicians that would line their pockets instead of putting tha tmoney to good use)
            Military = Unsure if you have ever asked an E3 to give you the square root of 64 lately.
            Police = To enslave and shoot innocent civilians (unsure if you have been keeping up with reality lately).
            Fire Protection = LULZ seriously?
            Education System = LULZ EVEN HARDER, you mean like public education?
            Environmental Regulation = What a joke,

            and for the record it’s etc, not “ect”

            I think you need to revisit reality.

          • Nathan Merrill

            So your complaint is that when you follow Republican policies and try to cut funding for everything to stuff money into the pocket of contractors things don’t work? Glad you agree!

            And well, sorry if you aren’t keeping up with reality, but we still have infrastructure, the military, police protection (and the idea that they are trying to enslave and shoot innocent civilians is pure propagandistic nonsense – have YOU looked at reality lately? The police only killed 300 people in the line of duty last year), fire protection is very important, public education gives better results than private education, and environmental regulation keeps us from looking like China.

            So yes, those are important things. If you claim otherwise, then you aren’t dwelling in reality. Sorry dude.

          • SgtSlaughter

            I like how you argue with yourself, make up strawman arguments, and then magically defeat them and then claim victor. Enjoy.

          • Guest

            You got served dude. Just stop trying.

      • non compliance

        it is over for the economy…with the devaluation from the ukrainie crisis bringing on the global currency reset we will see who is left standing…you will be lucky to see a 30% decline in your value going forward…

  • NotSoReal

    As always, these folks will not have to worry … please read the last few words of this quote from ‘the hill':

    “It is not really known what
    ramifications this law will have on U.S. residents with funds in foreign
    banks or if foreign banks will cooperate with the law. The Hill also
    reported that the U.S. demands on foreign banks to provide client
    information may “violate their own country’s laws and constitutions.””

    • Bob Anderson

      This administration has broken so many laws that they are not in the least concerned that they may ”violate their own country’s laws and constitutions”. The Hill’s ‘not knowing’ means that they know perfectly well what will happen; they don’t care, because they are shielded from the consequences. As for foreign banks, German, Swiss, and other nations’ banks have already begun to refuse to take in our individual investments because of ‘onerous U.S. regulations’.

    • callahan connor

      They have since created workarounds where the banks in question provide the info to their own government so they can stay in compliance with their own nations’ laws, and then the government in question provides it to the IRS. So the IRS still gets the info even though the bank doesn’t provide it directly.

      You would not believe what the IRS had to give up in order to get that. And when it hits, it’s going to cost a lot of money to meet the requirement of what the IRS has promised other governments in order to get them to go along with it all. So you know that bank account you have with the free checking? You can forget about free checking and other benefits from your local banks, because the costs to US banks to back the IRS up with what the IRS has promised other governments is a nightmare of an expense and the banks have to make that money up somewhere.

      As usual, it will be made up with the US citizen banking customers and taxpayers.

  • David Deloria

    “A penny saved is a penny earned” Really then if I save bitcoins and never cash them in for currency then what in the world do I earn anything is it all for real or FAIT no real things are food and water not gold or silver

    • Ric Jarvis

      That depends on whether you physically hold any gold or silver and don’t just own it on paper. If you do it’ll only go up in value as any future currency will still be based on precious metals
      .

  • Oliver Pine

    I got my Rambo knife & some beef jerky. I’m ready for the end. They can take my foreign earnings statement from my cold dead hands, baby. End of the world part 17. Woo Hoo!

    • TimboT

      You are not far off the mark as the great tribulation is just around the corner. How could it not be with an A-Hole like we have for POTUS?

      • Sandra

        It was the prior POTUS that caused all the fallout in the economy. It will take a hundred years or more to recover all the money given away to Blackwater and Dicktator Rumfeld’s croney’s. Where has all the money gone, long time passing…it was the wars, dammit!

        • Vazir_Mukhtar

          I believe the last several presidents share the responsibility for the parlous state the country is in. Remember that each succeeding president does not begin with a clean state and given the ineffective Congress, it’s next to impossible to reverse the actions or failures to act of his predecessors.

          Of course, it’s possible to say that George W. Bush took the country farther down the road to hell than did Bill Clinton or George H. W. Bush. The verdict is still out on the distance covered by Barack H. Obama.

          I submit that one does not need to seek for a first cause beyond the voters. H.L. Mencken put it well: “Giving every man a vote has no more made men wise and free than Christianity has made them good.” At the time Mencken wrote “men” was used for both men and women.

        • Flyonthewall

          The money has been gone for awhile. Its Agenda 21 Time now. Monsanto and
          Big Pharma will move in for the soft kill as we get positioned for war
          with Russia and China. Our military have been systematically spread thin
          at this pivotal time when Chinas Blue Water Navy is almost complete…
          The wide open spaces we set aside for conservancy and all the wild
          preserves around the U.S. are collateral to pay back the Dollar Standard which we guaranteed in gold that no longer exists. Now we’ll get a turn to be raped as we’ve done to so many other countries. our mineral resources in these beautiful places will be sold off to cover our note.
          Quietly money managers and those in the know are diversifying all
          certificate and currency assets to gold platinum and silver. As I write
          this China is now in a furry buying up ailing factories here in the U.S.
          because they want HARD assets. They know full well our dollar is close
          to failure and the stock market is falsely being trumped up to stave off
          the collapse till such a time as when the elite banksters who did this will slip away into the night with the last of our wealth and some poor bastards will be conveniently blamed.
          Then the UN will step in and offer us a deal if we turn our backs on
          our Constitution and put down our guns and take a global seat in the
          “Union”……all will be good again. Hehe.. just a little fiction. or is it?

          • SgtSlaughter

            Blue helmets are worse shots than the folks we’re trying to “train” in Iraq and Afghanistan. I say, let them come for our guns and ammunition, it will surely be a hilarious sight to see.

        • Flyonthewall

          you are so right..

          • Nomad

            He’s asleep Fly. Don’t worry, it’s better if he doesn’t see it coming. Matrix style. He’d rather eat his steak and live in a world of la la then deal with the truth.

        • George VanDorn

          How naive are you!

        • Nomad

          I hated GWB as well. He launched a lot of laws Clinton started as well as well as his own and his own war. But I hate BO even more. Who lies about everything. Resigned the patriot act, left gitmo open, still in afghan, fast and furious, IRS, NSA, Benghazi, Arab spring. Doubled our deficit spending buy 8 trillion. Said he was anti Wall Street, bankers, and big corporations but continually supports QE that funds and helps hide trillions in derivatives and bonuses to Thea clowns. Who’s the POTUS? Now the HIRE act. By by us economy.

      • Oliver Pine

        And I’m praying for tidal waves
        I wanna see the ground give way.
        I wanna watch it all go down.
        Mom please flush it all away.

        Be funny to see the look on your face if your ‘great tribulation’ actually came to pass and it wasn’t Jesus who showed up.

      • earlymusicus

        False interpretation of the Book of Revelation. Bet you’re a BIG fan of Tim LaHaye with his twisted “Left Behind” series, from which he makes millions of dollars but doesn not believe in donating any of that money to help the poor as Jesus taught. Fundamentalist multi-millionaires like LaHaye prey upon ignorant people’s fear, get rich off doing that, and then claim that his resulting wealth is a gift from God and that to share it is wrong – that it should be kept totally for himself alone.

  • Nathan Merrill

    The entire point of this bill is to prevent scumbags from hiding their money overseas. It will have only a positive effect on the US Dollar, as it will decrease tax evasion and increase revenue, thus cutting the deficit and forcing people to pay taxes more equitably.

    The reason these people are writing these scare tactic articles is because they don’t want to have to pay taxes. They’re mooches.

    • callahan connor

      Actually, the problem here is not those who have money overseas. It’s overseas citizens who have money in US banks.

      See, the US is the biggest tax haven in the world . . . to everyone EXCEPT US citizens.

      This bill promises to overseas governments to share the banking info on their citizens with those governments, but the banks here in the US do not have systems in place to do so. The expense to set such a system up is enormous and will not likely be done anytime soon. But in the meantime all that overseas money parked in US banks is likely to be withdrawn soon (if it hasn’t already left), causing the banks here to fail. Citibank already failed the last stress test, and so many others are so close to the brink until the least little withdrawal of the bigger tax avoiders overseas will cause major problems for US banks.

      There are many banks overseas who have determined that the American citizen living overseas is no longer worth the bother and have closed US citizens’ bank accounts. While you might think that’s a good thing, that also includes any mortgages they may have on their primary residence due to being married to a foreigner and living and working overseas. If your bank called your mortgage to be paid in full out of the blue, would you be able to pay it off and keep your home? That’s what’s happening to many who live and work outside the US but represent American companies and provide American jobs by selling American products overseas, as well as those who work the oil industry around the world. There are plenty of tech workers who work in the oil industry that fit that description and live and work in Dubai, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia and elsewhere. But never mind that the person lives, works, and in some cases even runs a business overseas. They don’t care because the expense to comply with IRS extra-legal demands is too great. The only reason they even think about compliance is because those banks are likely to have correspondent bank accounts with US banks and that their movements of their money go through New York before landing at its final destination.

      There are over 8+ million US citizens living and working overseas right now. And the majority of them are not sitting on a beach sipping a pina colata and earning 20% on their money. More than you expect are middle class workers with families, who have hopes and dreams for their children just like you do.

      And believe me, there is likely way more money here in the US belonging to foreigners than there is in offshore accounts that the IRS would like to get their hands on. The effect of this bill is net negative on the US dollar, even after you add in the effect of decreasing US tax evasion because the projected inflow of previously hidden capital is less than what it costs the IRS to run the program in the first place. And that doesn’t take into account the reciprocal agreements with the other governments and the sucking sound of those citizens of other nations as they pull their money out of US banks.

      And besides, remember during the last presidential campaign how everybody made such a big deal about Mitt Romney having money in overseas bank accounts? The truth is, the only reason anybody knew about it was because he was in full compliance with the law. Not exactly the definition of “hiding money overseas” if the IRS has been informed by the taxpayer in question . . .

      But answer this question.

      If the US dollar is in such great shape, then why does the US Government need to put a gun to somebody’s head in order to get them to keep their money in the US? That’s the bottom line effect of this law and others like it, it is a form of soft currency controls. Nations with a better deal don’t have to pass laws to restrict money movement.

      One more thing to think about.

      Singapore is where quite a bit of the foreign money will likely end up when it leaves the US. Why? Because in the entire history of Singapore, they have never once had a bank failure. Not even once. How many banks have failed in the US in just the last 12 months?

      • Nathan Merrill

        The idea that Singapore has never had a bank collapse in it is more than a little misleading; as far as I can tell, it is true that no bank BASED in Singapore has ever failed, but it is worth remembering that Singapore is not a very big country and that many of the banks it DOES have are foreign-based. Notably Barings Bank, which was located in Singapore but based in London, did indeed fail, and I’m sure there have been many others as well. The government of Singapore itself notes on its website that just because it has never happened before doesn’t mean it can’t happen in the future.

      • Nomad

        Absolutely. The US imposes these laws and reporting on other countries but lives by its own laws. The US refuses to give names and account info. Look at the Russian Oligarchs who had money frozen here just recently. Not because of taxes but sanctions. Otherwise billions unreported to other nations. Saudi as well hides cash here, for terrorists perhaps. The funny part is is china and Asia haven’t signed off on FATCA or have a lot of middle eastern counties. This is a law that is meant to collapse the dollar. Money will flee as the us starts 30% withholding of FFI money. Money will run. This is a sign of a dieing financial supper power. They can’t risk the wild sword of a nation gone mad. Make a stand May 16 and demand our government step down to the people. Peacefully.

    • teller123

      You mean the scumbag/bankers and billionaires like Soros that OWN the United States Government? Are those the scumbags you are talking about? I can assure you these grand ‘laws’ don’t touch the people with all the money. They just screw the people that are kind of rich. They may seem rich to us (upper middle class) but you have to go up a few layers in the pyramid if you want to get to the real money and they are all far above the law. All these ‘rich’ people that we have been convinced we are taxing in this country are not the rich. The real rich are the ones stealing from all of us and they will not be done until they have taken it all.

      • Nathan Merrill

        The idea that Soros owns the government any more than any other rich person does is pretty silly, and honestly the idea that the rich own the government isn’t really right; they do have a lot of pull, but they’re not the only force with a powerful pull on Washington, D.C. The truth is that no one group has control over the US government; if they did, the US government would actually get stuff done.

        • Vazir_Mukhtar

          I agree that no single group has control over our federal government. What we have is powerful groups — lobbyists, the super-rich, etc., competing with one another to influence our government. Those who have the weakest voice are the voters, in the middle and upper middle classes. The poorest have the well-intentioned to look after their interests, and they vote according to the party that butters their bread..

          • Nathan Merrill

            Nah, the poorest are mostly too stupid to know what is good for them, quite frankly. Poor minorities vote for the Democrats because they feel that the Republicans have holes cut into their pillowcases. Poor white trash votes for the Republicans on the basis of them being not the party of them undesirable folks who done took their jobs and who are uppity and don’t understand their place. The Republicans actively screw them over, but they are too stupid to know any better; the poor minorities, at least, do benefit from the Democrats, though quite frankly, even if they didn’t, they probably still would just because it means they aren’t voting the same way as the poor white trash is.

            The idea that they know who butters their bread is pretty silly; they have very little understanding of such things.

            Middle and upper class voters make up the vast majority of the vote in the country, and as such we choose our leaders. And yet even there, most of them don’t really understand what is going on. Such is the nature of democracy; most people are stupid and ignorant.

            The idea that politicians don’t care about them isn’t really true, it is just that random people aren’t really united behind any one cause. It is rather like atheism; people assume that atheists are some united group, but the reality is that a lack of religious identity is not a unifying force. The irreligious, by and large, simply don’t care about it or for it, but they don’t mostly identify themselves strongly as belonging to a group, but rather as simply not belonging to any group.

            What is the agenda of a middle class voter? There isn’t one, really; they don’t have any sort of unified agenda or anything, and mostly, they’re okay as long as they make a little more money every year.

            Special interest groups have specific agendas, and thus have strong things to push for as a group, clear, identifiable goals.

          • FunkyWinkerbean

            elitist anyone? regardless, the fact is the vote is a joke. Bev Harris has proved it. paper ballots with good watchdogs and term limits and publicly financed elections are what are needed. then we can start talking democratic republic again. until then it is an oligarchy, institutionalized as opposed to Russian style, the effect is the same.

          • Nathan Merrill

            You really have no comprehension of how reality works.

            First off, reality doesn’t change just because you don’t like it. The fact is that the majority of Americans don’t understand how the world works at all. They don’t understand complicated issues. A third of Americans are only barely literate. And another third can only understand things if they are presented with no conflicting infromation – i.e. in the form of propaganda. Only about a third of Americans are actually capable of seeing conflicting information and drawing conclusions, and only about 14% can do it if the information is mixed. We know this from literacy studies. It is just reality. It is rather depressing, but that’s the way it is.

            Secondly, no, Bev Harris has “proved” nothing. All voting requires trusting that those who count the ballots are doing so fairly. The idea that paper ballots are superior in this way is simply false; it is very simple to lose paper ballots or “misread” them, and you can just take ballots and say some completely different number if you are sufficiently corrupt. The same is true of any voting system, electronic or otherwise. It is simply the way the world works.

            Indeed, there are no indications of widespread electoral fraud in the United States. None whatsoever. The most infamous case – Bush v Gore – the issue was the Supreme Court, not ballot counters.

            As for the rest of it:

            Term limits are good.

            Publicly funded elections are beyond worthless. Not only do they not make for fairer elections at all because it is trivial to exclude people from public funding, but it also requires massive government suppression of freedom of speech, or else it is utterly meaningless anyway – everyone needs to have the right to speak out for the candidate or cause of their choice, and that includes publishing books, handing out pamphlets, running websites, advertisements, the works. That ALL is freedom of speech. And it is all stuff that anyone can do.

            And ALL democracies are oligarchies. They always are, without exception. The reason is trivial – democracy is about being elected. The people who are best at getting elected will band together and pool information and be better at getting elected. It is how reality works. There is no way to prevent this. Indeed, there is no political system at all which is not oligarchical in nature – humans inherently form social pyramids. It is how they function.

          • John

            The electronic voting machines have been tested several times & have been proven to be completely hackable, just like all of our electronic devices.

          • TOBS

            Wow. You know, its people like you who have fucked this country over. Thank you for diving us deeper into the illusion that we are still a free country and not owned by banks. WAKE UP PEOPLE. The truth is right in front of your fucking eyes, better hold onto your asses, because we haven’t even seen the worst to come. Oh and by the way, republican and democrat don’t exist, they are all in the same bed with each other. Pretty soon the middle class isn’t going to either because of geniuses like you. Its going to be poor as fucks and rich filthy bastards. Oh wait…WE ARE ALREADY THERE.

          • Nathan Merrill

            You clearly must be a failure at life then, because there is an extremely large and vigorous middle class in the United States. Did you ever consider your unemployment might be the result of your own ineptitude?

          • thoughtculture

            you’re placing people into classes, man… stereotyping– which is what bugs me in reading this, but aside from your first paragraph essentially equating poor to stupid, i agree with what you’re saying. i don’t even know why I’m budding in here, but something in your words caught me as i scrolled down this page. you are pretty right on, don’t get me wrong – – just remember we are all individuals and life (in this case, government interest) is not so cut and dry. keep upful.

        • SgtSlaughter

          Article jointly written by 2 very well known colleges. Title of article “United States Government is now an Ogliarchy.” Put that in your crack pipe and take a huge hit.

          • Nathan Merrill

            The US government has always been an oligarchy. All governments are. There is no other way to create a functional government.

            But the people of the US can elect whomever they choose. The fact that they only choose people from two parties does not mean that they cannot make other choices, simply that they do not.

          • SgtSlaughter

            Not when the voting system is broken/rigged. If I know the table is rigged, why would I keep putting down money?

          • Nathan Merrill

            It is neither of those things. Just because you lose doesn’t mean it is rigged. Indeed, it is not. We have fair elections. People can elect whomever they want.

            The fact that people vote for who they vote for is telling. Democracy doesn’t mean you always get your way.

          • SgtSlaughter

            Uh dude, it’s proven fact that there were dead people voting during the elections, there were people voting multiples of times, and there were also people getting bused around to multiple counties to vote multiples of times. That by definition is broken/rigged.

          • John

            When the electronic voting machines were first introduced, the media quit doing exit pollls after voting because it did not match the voting results anymore.

            With the paper ballots they matched exactly, but no more.

            The electronic voting machines are completely fraudulent.

          • Northwest_Raised

            1s and 0s in compooters. A phony system in a lazy age run by machines. The plug will be pulled, and the resultant collapse will take the starry-eyed chattering class with it. Cannot happen soon enough. These nasty control freaks with their ru-hells and law-de-daws only look good in a ditch, covered with flies.

          • earlymusicus

            Most of the choices are simply puppets of big business and the rich who give them the big campaign dollars they need and then when they get in office, the rich and big business pull their puppet strings and make them do what is most favorable to them (the rich and big business) and what is most destructive to us, the working people. If we had publically-funded elections to get rid of the influence of big money, better people might be able to run for office. So long as we have that despicable thing called “Citizens United”, big money people will continue to buy the government to the detriment of working people, and we will continue to have to choose between people who really don’t give a damn about ordinary people. “Citizens United” SHOULD be renamed “Rich and Big Business United Against the Rest of US.”

          • Nathan Merrill

            You clearly haven’t interacted with politicians.

            Very few politicians are actually puppets of anyone. That’s not to say that they don’t exist, but it is a highly incorrect view of politicians in general, and is the result of paranoia and lack of comprehension. Rather, it is more correct to say that people promote those who promote their interests. The idea that it is about “big business and the rich” is false, though; sure, they donate money, but lots of other people donate money as well. Look at Obama – his average contribution size was quite small. Hardly soley the realm of the rich and powerful – many ordinary people donated money to him, and the money they donated was greater than that of special interests on the whole.

            You have no understanding of the actual issues.

            First off, we live in a democracy. That means we fundamentally choose our leadership by popularity. The flaw with this system is obvious – our system is not selecting for the people who are best at their job, but who are best at getting elected. This is an intrinsic flaw with democracy. It will occur no matter how you fund elections. Idiots will be elected because most voters are deeply stupid, and are incapable of choosing who is most competent – they choose who is best at campaigning. That’s just reality.

            Second off, because of this, many politicians aren’t actually competent at their jobs. This means that they don’t really know what they have to do, so they have to listen to the advice of others to figure out what to do. The way that special interests gain influence is not merely by money, and indeed money only plays a relatively small role in the issue; the major issue is that they make friends with and are trusted by the politicians, and the politicians believe that whatever experts their friends tell them are right are right. And they tend to be much more swayed by emotional arguments than logical ones because they aren’t exceptionally competent, and it doesn’t help that many of their supporters are themselves too stupid to tell the difference. The result is that politicians tend to believe what they’re told because they really don’t know any better, and because they don’t want to believe that they’re wrong about things.

            Thirdly, Citizens United wasn’t a bad decision at all, and didn’t cause any damage to democracy at all. The idea that CU is bad in any way is false. Citizens United is a good thing. It was entirely about freedom of speech. If you don’t believe in freedom of speech, you can go to some horrible hellhole like Iran. If you like it? Then you have to accept the fact that people are going to use their freedom of speech in ways that you don’t approve of. Everyone has the right to speak out about politics and political issues, and indeed, the ENTIRE POINT of the first amendment was to PREVENT the government from curbing freedom of speech when it comes to political issues. Everyone who says “I hate Citizens United” is actually saying “I hate America”. They don’t realize it, but that’s what it is.

            Publicly funded elections won’t fix anything. I have the right – as does everyone else – to make ads, to yell at people on youtube, to post comments on news sites, to report on political issues, and everything else. That means people are going to do that for people I despise. But that’s their RIGHT. And it is vitally important that that right be protected.

            You must accept either that democracy needs to be ripped out by its roots and replaced by something else, or that Citizens United was the right decision. Either the people are too retarded to actually make choices based on anything and therefore should not have the right to vote (and thus there is no reason to suppress freedom of speech), or people are smart enough that buying the election will look bad to them.

            And you know what? When people DO try to buy elections, they tend to lose. Being supported by one rich interest will not win you an election. The reason the politician with more money tends to win is because the more popular you are, the more money people donate to your cause.

          • John

            The two party system went along with 20 years of deregulation greenspan for their favorite corporations, wall street & the banksters, which created & caused the 2008 collapse due to fraud & corruption.

          • Randy Archer

            We do NOT live in a democracy – this is a Constitutional Republic. All men should be sovereign unto only themselves. The only law should be the constitution. Period. All these new illegal laws need to be expunged. And if you sincerely believe anyone can get elected you are truly blind to the present state of this union.

          • Nathan Merrill

            Everyone who claims the US isn’t a democracy clearly doesn’t understand what the word “democracy” means.

            “Democracy is a form of government in which all eligible citizens participate equally—either directly or indirectly through elected representatives—in the proposal, development, and creation of laws.”

            “A system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.”

            “A form of government in which people choose leaders by voting.”

            We are a democratic constitutional republic.

            The Constitution clearly allows for the creation of additional laws which are subservient to the Constitution. For someone who claims to care about the Constitution, clearly you haven’t read it.

            The entire purpose of Congress is to pass laws.

            And as for “anyone getting elected” – anyone can legally run for office. If you are bad at running for office, obviously you won’t win. But crazy people not getting elected is the system working as intended; it is a problem when crazy people get elected.

          • KWMJR

            PS: Something to consider, never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience! Although you do a pretty good job. Also one small disagrement..citizens united is not a person,or a people! It may represent and or is comprisedof people,BUT it is NOT a person,people, live human! The suprem court lost its ability to reason and reality of laws. Making businesses,organizations,and corperations,PEOPLE……NO CANT BUY IT!

      • RK

        I totally agree with Telle123
        I’ts pople like Nathan who don’t have a clue on what’s really going on in this world, typical ignorant dude! A bunch of blah, blah, blah, and micromanaging his brainwashed views to the death, to his own satisfaction. The point is really simple here folks, taxes we need to pay, to keep things rolling, OK! But not at the ridicules rate it is now! In the beginning, this country was based on fair tax laws; look at what’s going on now? Trillions of misspent tax dollars, funding insane wars, weapons development and the list goes on. By the way, the USA has enough weapons to fry the globe numerous times over, what are we and who are we afraid of?, It’s all a money making scheme for the top 1% in this country who probably pay little to no taxes, but according to Nathan, the poor tax payer shall hand over freely their hard earn money to bleed for a completely flawed system. If this government would get their act together, and start imposing fair tax laws to hard working Americans, perhaps people would be more reluctant to pay their fair share, the going rate is ridiculous! We mind as well move all back to Europe were we originally came from. What happened to the American dream and true freedom as such, but instead, if someone fails to pay some of the ridiculous taxes (for legitimate reasons as mentioned above), we make them criminals. The last time I checked on such action in my law book, it was called “racketeering” This country needs to reexamine itself, and start weeding out the bad roots leading this country before it’s to late. By the way, I don’t mean the president etc. they really don’t have power, they are merely puppets, I am talking about the guys far behind the scene (the 1%)
        In closing, Nathan is a perfect example, representing many with the same sheep attitude, allowing this country to the path of self destruction, by exactly doing nothing, but allowing band aids, by throwing more taxes to the national deficit problem, I can hear him say, with a wavering voice “you’ve got to pay your fair taxes” What fair taxes???????? A you serious dude?, Wake up and smell the coffee folks. Together we can make a difference, let’s be strong again and take America back as it was intended for by our founding fathers. God Bless America

      • 392 srt

        Obama, Soros are friends, he visited the W.H. multiple times. Soros pro union but not at Media Matters he funds that Organization, and has Tax exempt status.
        Nothing like a centralized government. That is where most of the Money goes.

      • squint9

        Teller123, you need to fact-check a little deeper. Forget Soros. Who holds more than 10% of the national debt (a little over $17 TRILLION as of 12/31/2013 including $5 TRILLION in Intragovernmental holdings)? Asians. More than $2 TRILLION. Sure it doesn’t sound like much … but anyone with a brain has to know that that kind of money carries serious clout. So next time your scrunching your brain up trying to figure out why Congress — who are now generally well-paid members of the corporate world thanks to the Supreme Court — is enacting some of the laws it does (like H.R. 2847), try on your Asian-world-view-glasses and Whoa! look at that.

      • Rose Leggore

        EXactly…sadly most don’t get that!! grow your own food they say….the powers that be look for whatever reason they can to keep you from being self sufficient. Storm Troopers are pulling up people’s gardens by the roots and taking away self sustenance ..wake up the idiots who are chastising those who “have not prepared” for what is to come. Most have no idea what is to come and you greedy folk will keep everything including helpful info, for those who do not understand, to yourselves and feel so proud about doing so, you make me want to vomit… Greedy, Greedy, makes a hungry puppy.

      • Dan Phelps

        totally agree with teller123, the super rich will always be rich, that is why they support Obama, all the loop holes.

    • Lloyd Kassler

      You don’t understand global politics…once the US dollar is no longer the world reserve currency we will need to…as a country first buy whatever currency becomes the new world reserve before buying things like oil…or electronics from Asia…Clothing and all the other things we import…the only reason the US is able to print money to pay for its debt…and we are the only country that can do this is because we are the world standard…it happened to britian in the 70s…the British Sterling used to be the world standard until they tried to manipulate the economy and failed just as our government is doing now…any law that prevents you from buying foreign currency or commodities to protect your finances is not good for the people…this is real…please educated yourself and your family…the US dollar can not sustain the continual printing of money to pay off debt…no country can

      • squint9

        The Feds haven’t needed to “print money” for years. They only do it now to provide the confetti we humble citizens carry around. The _real money_ is created at the touch of the Enter key by crediting a banking institution “X” number of dollars (usually 6-8 figures) in return for a loan which the government then uses to pay it’s bills and the interest due on previous loans. No actual paper money ever exists in this transaction. It’s all electronic and basically invisible to mere mortals like us. They’ve been doing this for years … it’s essentially why the national debt grows and grows instead of shrinking. There isn’t anything of actual value to back it up other than the government IOU. Precious metals like gold and silver are being scarfed up all over the world … except here … apparently _we_ are shipping gold, et al, off-shore tons at a time fairly regularly. Gee. I wonder why foreign governments would want to be collecting stuff like gold while the US government continues to collect debt … sadly, it’s a mystery to congress as well.

    • Allison Wright

      Why don’t they just legalize cannabis on a national scale? That would be a much quicker, effective and efficient way to boost the economy. Not to mention the jobs it will create. Look at Colorado – cannabis=BIG$$$. It’s a proven fact.

      • Nathan Merrill

        I support the legalization of marijuana, and indeed all other drugs which are no worse than it and alcohol. If we deprive the drug cartels of money, and simultaneously tax them, we get more money and cause severe damage to organized crime, all in one fell swoop.

        But there’s nothing that says you can’t do both.

        • MrTea

          You are a fool if you think that heroin, meth, and crack are no worse than alcohol. It takes a serious effort to kill yourself with alcohol; it’s not hard to find stories of young, inexperienced heroin users dying. Hard liquor is a poison but meth is incomparably worse.

          We could manage even these vices similar to the way Nevada manages its brothels, with legalized vice dens with access restricted to physically controlled locations. But nothing can be allowed to interfere with the cartel cash flow which is propping up insolvent U.S. financial institutions while the feds look the other way. Plain evidence of this was on display when Eric Holder let HSBC get away with laundering billions in cartel cash with no criminal charges. I totally believe it when I hear that U.S. troops guard opium poppy fields in Afghanistan, though the evidence is most heroin addicts in the U.S. consume supplies from Mexico–another criminal regime.

          • Nathan Merrill

            I said “all other drugs which are no worse than alcohol”. Heroin, meth, and crack are worse than alcohol, therefore I would not be for their legalization.

            I think you misread my post.

            Also, the idea that drug money props up financial institutions is simply a lie. It is a side business; the amount of money they make off of it is quite small in comparison to their overall revenues.

          • TJ Dolan

            actually alcohol is the worst drug, so you would be for all drugs except alcohol

    • Gideonsword

      You mean scumbags like “Timmy the tax cheat Geitner”, or “John park my 2 million dollar yacht in another state to ovoid taxes in my state Kerry”? Or how about that sanctimonious azz “Hillary the hypocrite Clinton’ who was dinged by the IRS for questionable deductions when she and Bill first went into the White House? She said those of us who feel we are paying too much in taxes are “freeloaders”, but she and bill tried to deduct 400 dollars of used underwear from their taxes! The list of hypocritical socialistic tax cheaters goes on and on, but you willful fools on the left never remember the gargantuan sins of all these arrogant azz’s with their noses in the air. I keep waiting to hear Michelle say,”What? The have no bread? Then let them eat cake. The real evil people are not those that want to keep their hard earned money, it is those that think it is OK to steal the money of others and use it as their own! Those are the “mooches”!

    • Robert D.

      Why pay taxes without a SS# you don’t owe taxes to the IRS, how can you.. impossible, thats why they don’t advertise, cause they’re not legal either way, you can’t force someone to sign a piece of paper accepting a fabricated debt which never existed to begin with, until they printed fiat money that is. If I grow an apple on my orchard, and my neighbor the orange farmer wants to trade one for one, then when I picked that apple I am supposed to tell the irs, that I perfomed work and my profit is an orange. Work is not taxable, nor should it ever be or been, its called a profit, look it up Nathan, the highest court in the land (supreme court) says so, only corporate profit is defined as “income” tax. Its really just a scam, and hell the irs isn’t even in the USA its in a territory called Puerto Rico. So go knock on their door and give em your money okay.. at least the beaches are nice…:)

      • Nathan Merrill

        This is simply false. You owe taxes to the IRS regardless of whether or not you possess a social security number if you earn money in the United States, as any foreigner who lives in the US can tell you, and any law scholar can tell you.

        Almost all income is taxable.

        You are repeating known lies, and indeed, the Supreme Court has said as much.

        This is part of the propaganda known as the Sovereign Citizen’s Movement. It is all lies, unfortunately. In the real world, tax laws are not written in this way – and if you had done the research (i.e. read the laws yourself, and read court rulings which specifically noted that these arguments are all false – and indeed, not just false, but frivolous, you can be fined $5k for claiming them to the IRS, because they have long since been discredited) you would know this.

        • Robert D.

          You say you know lies when their told, and you believe what your told, but you haven’t examined a thing, especially your own self conscience, so a fine (or fear of one, so fear it is) is what makes you believe the garbage you spew out, wonderful. Freedom can’t exist unless you fight for it. And you want to stay asleep, like a good coppertop, yum yum, goop does taste steaky steak.

        • Mirabella

          “as any foreigner…..can tell you”? What you aren’t factoring in is how many of these foreigners living in OUR country are receiving their food, clothing, shelter and health care from tax payers. The greatest number are day laborers, usually paid in cash and pay no taxes. They get refunds from the earned income credit. AND, if you go to any Western Union on “payday” you will find lines of Central Americans and Hispanics standing in line sending LARGE sums to people “back home”. They are stimulating someones economy. Landlords in my area have begun limiting the number of single people they will allow in a reidence (2 adults per bedroom) simply because the ” .foreigners you speak of were cramming up to 20 adults in a 3 bedroom apartment or house! Unless you live in some of the “port” areas, the border states, or the states where migrant workers flock, you don’t know what kind of problems these “foreigners” cause. Primarily they are undocumented foreigners who speak no English and a vast majority rely on small, elementary age children to interpret all their “business”.

          So when the US passes a law to remove all of these non-tax paying foreigners, maybe things will get better. Oh, and by the way, the majority of documented “foreigners” don’t pay taxes. They have taxes deducted, true, but the IRS allows them to receiver tax refunds, which most do. Check out your local “rapid refund” tax preparation office during tax season.

    • freewill2

      taxes is legalized theft, we had government before there was taxes.

      • Nathan Merrill

        Using what money? Taxes are ancient and predate writing; indeed, it is believed that writing arose in part in order to do official counting for the purposes of taxation.

        Taxes aren’t “legalized theft”; they’re contribution to the public good which is mandatory for living in a society. If you want to live in a civilized society, you must pay your dues to the maintenance of said society. Otherwise, you are just a leech, an enemy of everyone else. Schools, roads, the military, police, fire protection – all of these are paid for by all of us, to benefit all of us.

        • freewill2

          you have been fooled into thinking this way…Our government was set up for the U.S mint to make the money. in 1913 the bankers took control, and started printing federal reserve notes. in 1933 roosevelt took us off gold backing the dollar and the bankers were free to print. the first hundred + years of no taxes we had government, that included courts, schools, our oldest colleges date back to our founding fathers. several wars were fought without taxes and we had sheriffs and marshals, and we had a navy.you cant make one purchase without paying a sales tax. our nation was founded on the hatred of taxes. ….the king has sent swarms of officers to eat out our substance….declaration of independence

          • Nathan Merrill

            As the site apparently denied my previous post for including links to Wikipedia:

            1) Income tax dates from the civil war, not 1913. 1913 was when the Constitution was amended to make it so that income tax did not have to be apportioned between the states, so that someone who made the same amount of money would pay the same amount of tax regardless of which state they lived in to the federal government.

            2) Gold is a fiat currency; the value of gold is primarily driven by speculation about the price of gold, rather than its actual value as a commodity. Gold is valuable because it is shiny, not because it is useful, and at the time when the gold standard was used, that was just about the only use of gold, as modern electronics didn’t exist at the time.

            3) The reason we shifted away from a gold standard is because it is very bad for your economy; not only does it cause massive, wild fluctuations in your economy when the price of the commodity fluctuates (and the price of gold is not very stable), but it also limits the size of your economy by tying it artificially to something which is unrelated to your economy.

            4) Sales taxes in the US are purely local, not federal. If you are upset over sales taxes, complaining at the federal government is worthless, as there is no national sales tax in the US. I live in a state with no sales tax, and we pay no sales tax.

            5) The idea that the bankers “took control” in 1913 is simply false; the bankers were enormously important long before 1913.

            6) The US Constitution has included the taxing and spending clause since its inception in the 1780s. It states:

            The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence[note 1] and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

            7) The tariff of 1789 was one of the first things that Congress passed when it was formed.

            8) The fight was against taxes which were being levied against the American people without their consent (they had no representation in Parliament) and frequently not for their benefit (the Tea Act was created in prop up English tea prices, not for the benefit of the American people).

            9) The Founding Fathers attempted to create a libertarian country using the Articles of Confederation, but quickly discovered that a libertarian government is a nonfunctional, bankrupt government, which is why the US Constitution was written. Libertarianism is like communism, it doesn’t work in the real world, and it has been tried.

          • freewill2

            you are totaly wrong. lincolns tax was ruled unconstitutional. the privatly owned federal reserve took control of the money. gold holds its value. 1913-1933 a 20 dollar bill and ounce of gold had the same value. gold closed today at 1286 an oz. the federal reserve note is worthless. the rothchilds, warburgs and morgans, control the gold. they had a meeting on jekyll island in 1896, the federal reserve was born. 1 ounce of gold buys 1286 dollars worth of merchandise. during the civil war the south put out paper dollars, a rich man goes in to buy a pair of boots for 200 dollars and gives the cashier a 500 dollar bill, the cashier says i dont have that kind of change and the rich man replied…thats ok son, you keep the paper and i’l take the boots. what cost 5 bucks in 1787 cost 5 bucks in 1913. now that product cost 1286 dollars.

          • Nathan Merrill

            The federal reserve is run by the government of the United States of America; you don’t understand how it works. Private companies are FORCED to hold stock in the portion of it which is in control of their region of the country; it is non-optional. This is a requirement which forces them to participate in and support the organization. But the organization is run by the federal government on the highest levels; the chairman is appointed by the president, as is the rest of the board of governors; only on the lower levels of the organization are private individuals found.

            If you knew anything about this organization, you’d know this. In fact, they regularly announce that the president has appointed new members in the news, so there’s really no excuse.

            As for the rest of it:

            1) Gold is a commodity. That means its price fluctuates. The value of gold has changed over time relative to other goods, and sometimes undergoes massive price fluctuations. The price of gold has fluctuated by 20% this year alone, whereas the price of real world goods have not. Its value is by fiat; that is to say, it is worth what people claim it is worth soley because people believe it is worth that much. In the end, its actual value is restricted to a fairly narrow band of real-world applications, plus being shiny. The “stability” in the price of gold at certain points in history (which wasn’t really stable, I’ll note) was soley via government manipulation of the gold market in order to try and keep the value of gold constant.

            2) Federal reserve notes are valuable because people take them in exchange for goods; in real life, more people accept federal reserve notes in exchange for goods than gold.

            3) No one group of people controls gold, and indeed, various governments have quite large gold reserves by comparison.

            4) You are simply incorrect about how inflation works, and indeed, don’t understand how money works at all. You are assuming that the value of things is constant, but it is not; over time, in real life, things have become LESS expensive, not more expensive. The value of the dollar is not fixed, which is why you’re confused; neither is the value of gold constant. You suffer from a basic lack of understanding in economics; if you had ever taken a course in economics, you would know this. People in the past made less money than they made today, by a pretty wide margin; we have much nicer things today, we earn more money (and that’s in real value, not in “imaginary value”), ect. The real GDP of the US in 1929 was 1 trillion; it is 16 trillion today. That is to say, we have 16 times more “real”: GDP than we did back then. This is unsurprising because we produce more things which have more value today than we did in the past. Gold is all about speculation these days, trying to take advantage of stupid people who think shiny rocks are worth something. You couldn’t buy a computer for any amount of gold in the 1860s; today, you can buy a computer faster than any computer in 1980 for under a thousand dollars. Our houses have clean running water, electricity, the internet, insulation, better building standards, and fewer bugs. Our food is better and cheaper; we spend less of our income on food and housing than our ancestors did, and more on entertainment. People are less poor than they used to be. The value of gold is utterly meaningless, and has changed over time relative to other goods. Over time, commodities change in value; aluminium was incredibly expensive at the time of the construction of the Washington Monument, which is why they built the cap of the monument out of the stuff; shortly thereafter, they figured out how to produce it cheaply and its value plummeted from better than silver to being one of the cheapest metals. This is how the real world works.

          • freewill2

            the appointments are mere formalitys. the federal reserve is owned by 7 world banks, only three in the U.S, Ron Paul has presented legislation several times to audit the fed. theres no accountability. they print money out of thin air. you really should research what has happened to our country. if government controlled the money, there would be no need for taxes.

          • Nathan Merrill

            1) The Federal Reserve is run by the United States government; the “appointments” are not mere formalities, they are in charge of the organization and they set the rates. It is not owned by seven banks; dozens of banks are required to hold shares in the fed. It is a means of controlling the banks.

            2) Ron Paul is a professional crazy person. His whole “audit the fed” thing is about making the government less efficient, which is his goal, as he is a bad person. The Republicans hate the government functioning well, and like to add as much stupid garbage to it as possible to make it work as poorly as possible. It is their goal.

            3) The fed does not print money “out of thin air”. Any money produced by the fed comes from bonds (or, alternatively, from the destruction and replacement of existing money when it gets worn out). If you knew how the Federal Reserve worked, you’d know this.

            4) It is precisely because of this that the government controlling the money (which they do) doesn’t mean that people don’t have to pay taxes. Taxes go to pay for government programs. If the government merely printed money to pay for its debts, without taking out bonds to do so, it would be devaluing currency, leading to inflation; in other words, an indirect tax, because all money would be worth less because there was continuously more of it being printed without anything behind it. This is what countries like Zimbabwe do, and then their economies fall apart as a result of their poor fiscal policy. The government doesn’t print endless amounts of money to pay off its debts; the money, ultimately, comes from somewhere. It is worth noting that there are vastly more dollars held in banks on paper than exist in real life; the vast bulk of money is not in any sort of paper or coin form, but in the form of numbers on computers or ledgers.

          • freewill2

            punch up …ask.com. type in info on federal reserve, educate your self on the private bank that prints money out of thin air. 1920-1933, federal reserve note, pay bearer on demand. the paper dollar is just a note. also read the book, …creature from jekyll island. have a good day, maybe we will discuss another subject someday, wake up, domestic enemies of our constitution is taking over our nation.

          • Nathan Merrill

            You do realize that information on the Federal Reserve is publicly available, right? I’ve read about it. I’ve researched it.

            Remember, just because some moron on the internet says something, doesn’t make it true. But primary sources, and the related laws, are going to be more accurate than crazy people on the internet. As it turns out, they don’t understand how the Federal Reserve works; they cling to a crazy conspiracy theory because they just can’t handle reality.

            They don’t want to understand how reality works.

            The paper dollar is just a note; gold is just shiny metal. They’re both fiat currencies, because their value comes from what other people believe them to be worth. But this ultimately true of all currency, as anyone with even a basic understanding of economics would know.

            I’d recommend taking a course in economics; it will be most enlightening. They can explain to you how the Fed works and why all currency is ultimately by fiat.

            Why do you hate America so much? Why do you want to attack our Constitution? Because it is quite obvious you have never read it, and have absolutely no understanding of our government whatsoever, given that you don’t understand how pretty much anything works.

          • middleclass white trash

            Nathan Merrill love him. Democrat poor called Minority, Republican poor are called white trash. New read Barack Obama`s Rules for Revolution – The Alinsky Model.

          • freewill2

            declaration of independence…the king has sent swarms of officers to eat out our substance. the was no taxes asfter 1781 except for the inspections of foreign products coming in. its to easy to make a bad batch of whiskey so a tax was placed to pay for the policing of it. the boston tea party was a protest of taxes, the U.S Constitution requires government to make gold and silver coins and regulate the value, not the privately owned federal reserve and their notes.

          • Nathan Merrill

            The only mention of gold and silver in the entire Constitution is a prohibition on the individual states from issuing any sort of fiat currency other than in the form of gold and silver coins; it does not prohibit the federal government doing so, and indeed, the entire purpose of said clause is to give the federal government the sole power to issue fiat currency in the United States. They printed paper money from the founding of the country.

            Had you actually read the Constitution, you would know this. And if you knew the history of America, you would know this.

            The Constitution is available online, for free, to read. The fact that you claim it says something that it does not is inexcusable.

            As for the idea that there were “no taxes” after 1781, that is simply false. There were numerous tariffs and there were many other forms of taxes in the United States in the 1780s, including property taxes. Again, if you had done your research, which you clearly have not, you would have known this; property taxes have existed since colonial times.

          • freewill2

            there was a whiskey tax, and fees were charged for the inspections of imports. government made the money thru the U.S mint. i have the constitution right here with me. read it! ..Article I, section 8, you pro government supporters make up your own history. the revolution was fought over taxes and gun confiscation. the tax on tea was 3/10ths of a pense per pound, after the war was won, there was no tax. tax on the gross national product before the war was around 3%, it went to zero after the war because of Article I, section 8. Kennedy signed an E.O to bypass the federal reserve and ordered the U.S mint to make the money, but Johnson repealed it. or did he? for some reason they stopped. if government makes the money, they dont need to tax,

          • Nathan Merrill

            You don’t understand on even the most basic level how money works.

            All money is only valuable because of fiat. This is as true of gold as it is of paper. It is only valuable because people say it is valuable.

            If you print more money, that means that there IS more money. The law of supply and demand says that the more plentiful something is, the less valuable it becomes. Ergo, if you just printed money endlessly, you would simply devalue it constantly, which would be a constant tax on anyone who held money because it would cause endless inflation.

            Zimbabwe is a great example of what happens when you follow this strategy – you end up with hyperinflation as your money becomes valueless. This is hardly surprising; if you can just print more money off on your printer, it means that money isn’t a scare resource. You can’t eat money, and there’s no reason to value something which is super plentiful.

            Article 1 section 8 gives Congress the power to impose taxes.

            “The Congress shall have power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;”

            The Sixteenth Amendment gives them the power to lay down income taxes regardless of the source without apportionment:

            “The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.”

            I’m not sure what is so complicated about this. Taxes are necessary to run a government; the founding fathers knew this and applied taxes in order to raise money for the federal government to operate. Over time, it become necessary for the federal government to spend more money, and so they had to raise more taxes. America is vastly wealthier than it was back in the 1700s, and the government is responsible for vastly more and better infrastructure. Back in the day, armies were some chumps with guns, dragging along some cannons; nowadays, they’re people with drones and jets and cruise missiles.

          • freewill2

            lay and collect taxes was inspection fees, any state border that foreign goods came in from would have to be uniform. 1913, the sixteenth amendmend went into effect because the U.S government had no way to pay its bills. a handful of congressman reconvened and passed the federal reserve act and tricked the president into signing it. if government enforced its constitutional power to make the money with gold and silver, they wouldnt take our money. read the rest of section 8. gold and silver not paper. there wouldnt be a 17 trillion dollar debt if paper hadnt of been pulled out of thin air. 85 billion in Q.E I II III went to fund wall street, its been cut back to 65 billion a month now. one cant pull gold and silver out of thin air. government made the money, people could not make coins, but they used the nuggets and powder as currency, only the U.S mint could make the coins. you should check the CATO institute for more information, cuz your not fooling anybody but yourself. thomas jefferson said…a standing army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people.

          • Nathan Merrill

            Incorrect. Lay and collect taxes was anything; the rule was simply that they be apportioned. Anyone who claims otherwise is just an outright liar, and anyone who has told you otherwise lied to you outright; they actually imposed income taxes prior to the 16th amendment. The 16th amendment came out because of Pollock, when the Supreme Court decided that taxes on income derived from property had to be apportioned, which meant that they couldn’t treat income uniformly. The 16th amendment came about in order to apply a fair, uniform graduated income tax.

            Secondly, the idea that a “handful of Congressmen” convened is a simple lie as a matter of historical record; again, whoever told you this is obviously a worthless liar with no understanding of history whatsoever. People started pushing for a graduated income tax after the Civil War, which was when the first income taxes were imposed. The Socialist Labor Party, the Populist Party, and the Democratic party all ended up adopting it as part of their platform in the 1890s. The income tax amendment was adopted overwhelmingly by Congress in 1909, not by a “handful of people.”

            Likewise, the Federal Reserve Act was not born out of a “handful” of people but had been the subject of discussion for many years. Aldrich came up with it in 1910. Both the Democrats and the Republicans were in favor of the Federal Reserve, but they had different ideas about how it should be run; the Republicans wanted it to be wholly privately owned, while the Democrats wanted government control over it. The Republicans lost in 1912, and so in 1913, the Democrats took Aldrich’s plan, gave the government control over the Fed while having private stakeholders be invested in it to enforce compliance. Indeed, it was the president, Woodrow Wilson, who you claim was “tricked” who, in fact, was an advocate for the plan and helped mold its final form.

            Whoever claimed that it was some secretive conspiracy was clearly lying; this is all a matter of public record, and was spoken of in the newspapers of the time. Clearly, the person has an agenda, and that agenda is not the truth – their agenda is to lie to you, to manipulate you.

            Gold and silver are valueless. You can’t eat gold. You can’t eat silver. The only reason that they’re valuable is because people say they’re valuable. They are fiat currencies. Indeed, were you aware of history, you’d know that in the 1890s silver rapidly devalued because people dug up a whole bunch more of it, resulting in a crash in silver prices precisely because silver is a fiat currency. So yes, you can pull them out of thin air, the same as you can pull paper money out of thin air. And they are, as noted previously, totally worthless inherently – they are a fiat currency, the same as paper money. The value of gold is based on people believing that it is valuable.

            Read the rest of Article 1, Section 8. The word “gold” does not appear in it even once. Indeed, Article 1, Section 8 expressly gave the federal government the ability to mint money, and the government had been making paper money even prior to the Articles of Confederation. Article 1, Section 10 bars the states from printing money which isn’t backed by gold or silver, because that power is reserved for the federal government; this was in order to prevent individual states from making their own paper currency in competition with the federal government. Again, whoever told you otherwise is a liar, given that the US Constitution can be freely read on the internet and in countless books.

            The government has always imposed taxes to pay for government services; it is how the government operates, and over time, the government has grown because it needs to provide more services, and all the services it already provided became massively more expensive; there weren’t aircraft carriers or stealth jets or ICBMs in the 1780s.

            The government does not, in fact, pull money out of thin air; that is precisely why there IS a federal deficit. If the government pulled money out of thin air, the government wouldn’t be trillions of dollars in debt; that debt is precisely where the additional money has come from – people have loaned money to the government.

          • freewill2

            you sir are a talking head, there was no federal taxes on any individual until 1913, government coined the money until 1913. a 20 dollar federal reserve note could not be printed unless there was 20 dollars of gold or silver to back it up, if one wanted to exchange it, they went and traded it in. in 1933 president roosevelt with a stroke of a pen, banned gold as legal tender, paper money is still a note. you really should search and stop mimicking pro government media. government could not pay its bills after it gave up its right to make the money. and they had to start taxing us.

          • Nathan Merrill

            Google Revenue Act of 1862, Revenue Act of 1894, and Pollock v. Farmers’ Loan & Trust Co. There were indeed federal taxes on individuals prior to 1913. Not to mention tariffs and taxes on various goods and services.

            The old gold standard, i.e. basing other fiat currencies on the fiat currency of gold, was a very bad system, as any historian or economist can tell you; the system never really made much sense, because in the end the price of gold was never fixed to begin with, and arbitrarily tying your economy to the price of gold was obviously stupid because it meant that whenever there was a fluctuation in the price of a precious metal it would cause a fluctuation in your economy. It also capped your total economy at however big your pile of gold was, which was obviously nonsensical as the amount of gold you have has nothing to do with how much work you can do. Because gold is ultimately a fiat currency, it just makes more sense to cut out the middle man and just print your own fiat currency out of a non-scarce material, because using a scarce material as a fiat currency is just silly.

            Taxes have always been how the government raised money. Indeed, how else would it acquire it? If you simply printed endless amounts of money, the money would have no value, because why would anyone accept it? You have to manage your supply of fiat currency, and you need to balance your accounts. Otherwise, you are simply taxing everyone via inflation instead, which is dumb.

  • Sandra

    The bottom line is that there are enough resources in the world to feed, shelter, and care for every single human being on the planet. Every single person who is able can be gainfully employed. It is the “financial systems” that are flawed.

    Personally, none of this affects us because we do not rely on financial systems to survive. Our resources have never been in what is euphemistically called “money”. Our resources exist in land that we own (far away from eminent domain), food that we can grow ourselves, and commerce that we can conduct without money needing to change hands. All money is good for is to exchange for resources that you can keep and use immediately, and to invest in real tools of productivity, either in your own hands or in the hands of your trusted neighbors.

    How far we have fallen to believe that imaginary resources in the form of money are a “good investment”. If you have foreign earnings based on money invested in foreign banks then you are part of your own self-created problem. Enjoy!

    • TimboT

      The Age-Old Barter system works just fine. To Hell with money. Americans will survive healthily without the green paper for the most part. People will need to get up of their asses and become more self-sufficient. Just watch out for hungry desperado’s trying to steal your food.

      • niggaplz

        yeah you sure better

      • http://batman-news.com J.p.

        The barter system does not work for the simple reason that you would need to find someone with an equal good or service at the same place at the same time. money is not evil, fiat currency on the other hand is. Money is a tool we use to trade our time. The barter sysytem set humanity back. What we need is gold and silver or something that is limited in quantity which maintains its purchasing power unlike fiat currency.

        • Anna Herrick

          J.P. Timbo does have a point with bartering. The Amish community is a good example. I took care of several critically ill newborns for 13 year and some were Amish. They all had a craft or trade they were good at and the community as a whole by selling their goods always paid cash for the huge bill on the way out the door. So in some situations I can see where it can work. And Fiat currency is on the way out for asset backed currency. Our dollar is not going to be the dominant currency in the very near future and it hasn’t done much good but grow greedy politicians with big taxes and the rest of the world has said to hell with the USA. Most despise our president and they broke the petrol dollar agreement so the greedy govt could pocket the money. The lazy asses don’t get that much money an don’t spend it on what they need or pay their bills for the most part. They drink it drug it and get their nails done so they can get laid. I’ve been in a thousand homes as a nurse and watched the selfishness and apathy of the people who take…My husband ran around and left me to raise my kids who were 5 and 8 and I got off my ass took out a govt loan, got some scholarships and worked my way through nursing school. My parents I asked no help from them. I just did it and take pride in not being vulgar. And I worked my way from poverty to married to a doctor because I got off my lazy ass and I’m proud I did.

          • HankBar

            What a solution !!!! All we have to do is become Amish. Wow I thought I was in trouble. I’ll sure sleep better tonight. All I have to do is throw my religion under the bus.

          • James Ingram

            Oh fuck religion you asshole.

        • barterisgood

          not true jp timbo. bartering. I am a paralegal with drafting skills and want someone to fix my brakes. I help him draft a motion pro se, he does my brakes. I still pay costs for brakes but not labor.

      • Lesismor

        How will you pay your real estate taxes? If you don’t pay you lose your home because we really rent our property from whatever county we pay real estate tax to.

        • colorado

          that’s why we should all become squatters and not pay real estate tax- haven’t wars been fought over this issue time and time again.

          am mans wages are his own, and a mans lands is his own. Period.

          • HankBar

            Want to bet

        • HankBar

          Maybe the gov will except a few sacks of potatos for taxes.

      • Vietnam Marine

        How about disable vet’s and other disable seniors that can’t get off their butts to barter with????

    • niggaplz

      bitch i dont know what silver spoon you were born with but i know where i come from we need cash to live so take your arrogant bullshit and trade it for paycheck to paycheck, and dont even judge because you dont know peoples circumstances…..sandra THAT is the bottem line

      • homesteader

        your language is totally uncalled for. and sandra is right. you can be selfsufficient and depend on money if you are prepared. so I can only assume you will be one of those who will be starving and stealing your food from those of us who are smart enough to prepare for the money to collapse. so maybe you should get your bum off the sofa and prepare for youself. you can grow enough food in your back yard to feed a family of 4. get to googling and learn.

        • Kim Couch Alexander

          You are so right. consider the language of niggaplz and the name. Sounds like another “Entitlement Club” member whinning!! Sandra is right, but only for those who want to help themselves. The only thing niggaplz has ever help themselves to is our tax dollars! You just can fix stupid.

          • Anna Herrick

            I’d say niggaplz is her socially acceptable name for nigger? My Lord I’ll never understand and don’t want to why people like you go around talking like that. It reflects the low life you are. And you named yourself appropriately. Unless you can contribute something besides hate and stupidity, keep your filthy mouse shut! I’ll bet you never worked a day in your life. Living off grandmas social security check for sure. Kim you are right stupid is stupid and you can’t fix stupid and you can’t fix lazy even with a tazer. I’ll bet she’s approaching 300lbs.

        • Dixie Burge

          What if you are elderly, live on Social Security Disability, cannot work, and live in an apartment and do not own your own land? Do you think your landlord will allow the growing of vegetables on his property?? Everyone is not in a position to do the same things you can!

          • John Deakins

            Reading Anna’s reply to niggaplz shows her extreme prejudice against the “lower class”. You should follow your own advice and keep the name calling to yourself, I counted 6 different slurs in your rant. Shame on you.

          • BEBIO

            i have a nice garden on my landlord’s property! It’s encouraged!

      • squint9

        Apparently you are unfamiliar with an age-old institution commonly referred to as “a farm”. Sandra is obviously part of the population which has decided to return to a much simpler life-style much like we enjoyed in the late 19th century. Eschewing fume-belching automobiles, electronic gee-gaws, and waist-expanding mounds of corn-syrup-laced processed foods, it is quite possible to live as Sandra describes. Of course, there’s no room for couch potatoes, sycophants, hypochondriacs, trouble-makers or layabouts. One must learn all of the jobs that exist on a pre-mechanized farm (because one never knows when one will be called upon to perform same). From milking the cows to hammering out implements to making coveralls, strong hands and hearts are required. The work day runs 24 x 7 x 365 with plenty of sleep (aka, early to bed, early to rise …) and good food to keep body and soul intact.

        Uh, homesteader? Back yard? You must have a few acres back there. It takes an acre of Poplar just to keep the heat on year round. You must also have a small army of children since many hands will be required to maintain and harvest that much food (assuming you aren’t McDee’ing in the off season LOL).

        • Richard McVicker

          The biggest problem with what Sandra is suggesting and that most people are neglecting to think about is how dependent our entire economic and social structure has become on the status quo. If the economy collapses in a way that stops the flow or value of money everyone in the country can’t just live the way Sandra suggests because we aren’t a society that is capable of sustaining itself independently anymore. We rely too much on needs being delivered to places for us to buy them. Granted there is a lot of land in the US that could be used to grow food we need and people can always learn how to plant, hunt, and produce their own clothes again but there are way too many people in the US for it to happen without us descending into a civil war over fertile land just to survive. The strong and selfish will always rear their true natures. Its human nature, when people get desperate they turn into animals, history has shown us this time and time again. I think the world shown in the current TV dramas Revolution and Walking Dead are great examples (minus the SciFi and zombie junk) of what we can expect our world to be like if we ever lose the infrastructure that has be formed in civilization over the last few hundred years. Right now our society is a barely functional machine, but at least one still operating, even with the flaws. If/when the individual parts stop working then the whole machine collapses.

      • Bob Fisher

        define what is cash, Last-time i checked it is not F.R.N. Federal Reserve Notes.. The system was built on credit your pre existing birth certificate credit account.. 1940 Alien registration Act..

      • Aliandrin .

        You’re assaulting Sandra and totally ignoring the people who KEEP you in that situation. Ask yourself WHY people are deliberately jam-packed into cities where they CAN’T be self-sufficient. Ask yourself why you would work so hard for money to buy food if you could grow that same food for less effort. It’s by design. It’s all about MONEY, because once there is MONEY, people use it to ENSLAVE YOU. You’re not wrong. I’m upvoting you. But you’re hating on someone who is 100% right. Just remember that MONEY is what allows you to be in that situation.

    • The Average Citizen

      Tell it like it is!!!! Wake-up everybody, listen to this man who’s name doesn’t happen to be Trump or Rockefeller.

    • earlymusicus

      If I could afford land, I wouldn’t be living in the suburbs of a major city. The problem is that so many of the rich have bought up so much of the land as tax havens, thus driving up the price of available land, that ordinary people like me can’t even find an acre that is affordable and that isn’t out in the desert somewhere and thus unproductive for raising my own food. My dream is to own an acre or so of land and build a tiny house on wheels and live off the grid via solar and wind. But that isn’t allowed in the suburbs where everything is controlled by the zoning and building codes.

      • Lesismor

        The rich aren’t your problem, the federal government is . They directly own 30% of US territory, that’s about 650 million acres of land.

    • Anna Herrick

      Sandra,
      Guess who were the wealthy people after the great depression? Farmers and landowners so you have a point. Yes the financial systems are flawed. An interesting book on that is The Creature from Jekyll Island. It was the beginning of the Federal Reserve who was owned by a few now very powerful families who own a lot of the Central Banks of the world. They manipulate the government because our government doesn’t even own the Federal Reserve. It is a money cartel and man they have ruled since 1913. They are the evil ones who made sure to keep the rich people to a minimum and keep hard working people down.

    • Digiphot2

      Dear Sandra:
      If you think that FIAT money and credit cards will save the world then you are dumber than a bag full of dead mice!
      “When!” The financial system collapses! Go Google “The Great Depression”. and read what happened back in WW1 and see what the the Deutchmark did when Germany’s economy went south! Before the crash, 1,500 Deutchmarks was worth something…The day after, you were lucky to buy a loaf of bread with all that FIAT currency! It is just paper! Do the math! If I wrote a check against a bankrupt account, to pay for your car that you are selling, and put $57,000 on the check, would you trust my signature, or would you check with the bank?
      Well Missy, Obama has doubled the debt, and is spending money that he is printing, without anything to back it! We don’t even have that much in Fort Knox….Gold that is! He is paying bills on an bankrupt account! Now if you have a lot in savings and it is a $xxx,xxx.xx…Six digit account, and Obama’s Bucks debt comes due, then all that FIAT money in your account…Is going to go to pay off that debt or the buck will go the way of the Deutchmark in the 1920’s
      Good luck!
      Enjoy the Ride!

    • John

      “It is the “financial systems” that are flawed.”

      Exactly, Obama ran on ending NAFTA/CAFTA & bring jobs back to America, never took place, just like all his other campaign promises.

    • Valerie Collins

      Boy Sandra just by the flip of a coin you could have been born across the border in Mexico, in
      Africa you are so lucky and so am I. There just might be enough stuff to go around but how do
      the others that are dying from starvation in other nations get this stuff before it is too late for them?

  • freddy kruger

    maybe with this type of right wing fear tactic that on July 1, 2014 the rich and mega rich near the 1% is going to try to make it appear that America wants to overthrow its government just like Russia is causing the slow overthrow of the Ukraine government. In Russia V.Putin is their problem, and in the USA our problem is with the corrupt republican politicians wanting to pretend that the working poor is the problem while the g.o.p. steals trillions by the way of corporate welfare! they are no longer the idol rich. now they are literally rich bums ripping off the American public. Yeah them bosses need all the help they can get! Yeah, right! Don’t be fooled by the corrupt rich.

    • Ken

      Just an FYI… the gap between rich and poor has increased SIGNIFICANTLY under this administration. Just remember, the Republicans only control one-half of one-third of our federal government. The Dems controlled both houses of congress for two years and it still took the Senate four years to final propose a budget.

      • freddy kruger

        the obstructionist don’t need a majority. they play ever rotten back stabbing tactic against the most of the American people. Tell someone that is really stupid and that believes your b.s. i don’t so save it for the idiots that don’t know how you republicans gerrymander the district in the red states and play the states right against the federal wish of the American people. you republican cannot stand it that the American people voted for President Obama and not you bunch of crooked no good like Chris Christy and his b.s. thieving carcus.I am sure the election in New Jersey was gerrymander by the corrupt republicans!

        • wahotsdad

          Thank you, for voicing the vitriol of the left that is the problem with America. Your ignorant rant is example one of why America is where it is. Probably think the billions spent on Obama vacations is justified too. please don’t breed!

          • freddy kruger

            i don’t breed as you and the waste of space republicans that get corporate welfare then totally lie and continue to lie about things that happen in the government. you GD republicans have got the economy in the shape it is with unpaid wars and corporate welfare where you bastards never ever pay a dime but get billions of dollars 0% interest in Q.E. you need to really check your facts. Fox news never has any facts or reality. Fox news just has a bunch of clowns like you that make up the big line of b.s. ever known to planet earth. worry about your vacation if there is any reality in your ignorant ass any more. i sure you will sire a little retard as stupid as you are. i am not a liberal, or lefty or a ignorant moron right wing nut job like you. You stupid idiot!

        • Catholicon

          “the obstructionist don’t need a majority” sounds like you just described the gays and jews….

    • SgtSlaughter

      You fall right into the left vs right paradigm. Voting is rigged. I could be considered a libertarian. I did not want GW in office, he was scum, so was his elf midget cheney. Obama has been much much worse to the whole design of how our country is supposed to be run. Because you are still stuck in this false left vs right paradigm, I cannot objectively say anything to you, other than please for the love of God and all that is Holy, please wake up and smell the coffee.

    • ward

      Guest ; Corrupt rich like soros and broooomfieeeld the buyers of bo’s & cronies for abused power to U.S. Citizens Freedom & Liberty along with violating The U.S. Constitution & Bill of Rights..! Wake up dupe of the, “left” dictators, or is it pull head out of the up & locked position..?

  • True American

    Read the BILL you ignorant hicks , Its a hiring incentive bill . Remember ppl READING IS FUNDAMENTAL AND INFORMATIVE

    • callahan connor

      Yeah, a “hiring incentive” bill that they tacked a bunch of unrelated stuff onto the bottom of . . .

    • CrapsDealer

      Condescending jackass

  • caughy

    The bill requires foreign banks to provide the IRS with a 1099 of American investments in their institutions. I am required to provide a W2 statement every year on my earnings. I do not expect to live for free here and neither should the millionaires and billionaires who have their money squirreled away in a foreign bank expecting not to pay taxes on their dividends. This Leona Helmsley way of thinking is one reason why this country has huge deficits.

    • Seamus

      Taxes not collected are not a loss. They don’t exist. The real problem is the idiots in the WH, and the dem congress which lives in the land of unicorns The dem-packed House and Senate passed this bill, typical socialism. Try to get money from those who earned it.

      Back to sentence #1. If the administration is counting on tax revenue in its budget on the assumption that the revenue will be collected it’s mismanagement and budgetary stupidity of epic proportions. Remember, the left thnks that if two proposals are put on the table for example, to increase welfare payments by $25/month, and a counter proposal to raise it by $20/month, the left calls that a cut. How stupid is that? The big plan of the left is destruction of the US economic system. This latest gambit will help.

    • KEITH

      Wow….You really don’t know how money works in the United States. You really think that your paid income taxes go to government services? The stolen money taken from you by gun point goes to pay the federal deficit on a worthless money printing machine. So you are actually taxed twice. Once, from your income taxes and second, from inflation. Inflation is the worst tax of all. It works silently to kill the American dream. So don’t look at people trying to hide their money as criminals. We should all be doing it.

  • Amused By Chikken Littles

    THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!

    Idiots….

  • Halo

    what about our oil?

  • Bud

    The far right is so far gone they believe they can write or say anything and the people will listen. Wake-up right wing, nobody is listening to your crap/lies/bs. The Paul’s, daddy and his loose nut son, have no idea of what is going on in the U.S., much less the world, but want you to respond to their stupid thoughts and beliefs. Say good night to the sad and pathetic Paul’s.

    • Catholicon

      you are one sad little troll

  • Draven

    This administration has to go!

  • niggaplz

    yall are all stupid, thinking you know whats going on…lambs led to slaughter, idiots…we know exactly what they want us to and divert the rest…blind rich comical fools…wake up and smell the karma

  • Russ Dodge

    The “trickle down effect” is what could create the problem. If the FFIs turn to other currencies and the US dollar will fall as the international monetary standard. All comodities will go way up as the dollar rapidly devalues against foreign currency. That will affect everyone in this country. I remember being in Germany when the dollar was strong (under Reagan) and you could buy a lot for your dollar at home and abroad. Even when I was in Korea (under Bush Jr), The won was a lot weaker than the dollar. I had to get 3 million Won to pay rent (about 2800 dollars). Within 12 months of FACTA taking affect, I expect to see the price for gas, groceries, automobiles, homes, etc to be much higher than now. Interest rates will soar. One thing that will not go up, your paycheck. I hope I am wrong.

  • Allison Wright

    Yet another reason to use Credit Unions rather than theft institutions (banks). Credit unions were completely untouched by the financial crisis that Bush and his republican cunts caused. Credit Unions are not owned or controlled by the government – they are owned and controlled by the members. I’ve been with credit unions all my life. I won’t set foot in a bank. I don’t trust banks and never have.

    • Enzo

      What an UNREAD loser you are. It’s been SIX LONG YEARS and you have still not managed to figure out that it was YOUR BOYS carter, clinton and obama who caused the HOUSING BUBBLE and GLOBAL ECONOMIC MELTDOWN. And then you forget to READ anything and run out and vote for the imbeciles who caused all the problems TWICE. Has obama managed to fix his MUCK yet?????????? OF COURSE NOT and he never will.

    • Enzo

      BTW, Keating just died you ever read ANYTHING about him?

  • nosclavamus

    omama .omama what you have done to our contry.

  • Enzo

    democrats have not managed to get any smarter in the past 100 years that’s for sure. They created the corrupt federal reserve (after our founders warned us so severely about that) and then next on their list was to found the corrupt IRS. Then the dems created their PONZI scheme Social Security and told us they would NEVER tax it only that was another bold faced LIE and they TAXED it of course. Next in line was their corrupt flopping WAR ON POVERTY that managed to waste $17TRILLION and oppress the entire nation. Oh, and then there was Medicare and Medicaid BOTH bankrupt same as social security now on to bankrupt obamacare RAH RAH RAH

  • MaxVeritas

    The currency itself is flawed as the so-called dollar, “of nothing” collapsed into symbolism back in 1971, which was orchestrated by Richard Nixon.

  • ???? ???

    It seems someone gambled with big money on the 2847 issue
    and now he strives to make it work

  • Citizen

    The Banksters have finally screwed up their fiat currencies so badly that they have no alternative but to “RESET” the currencies.
    Which is bankster speak for wholesale THEFT of YOUR money!
    YOU are going to pay dearly for their blunders!

  • Tim Buttrum

    Folks you all make valid points but I think you are missing the bigger picture here. Sandra our financial systems are technically not flawed in a Utopian world. What is flawed is the hearts and souls of the top 1% of the richest corporations, billionaires and the only family I can approximate their wealth at, are you sitting down, $500 Trillion. They would be called the Rothschild’s. If you happen to be real comfortable in that house you own for your retirement days. You ask why? I’ll be glad to tell you. 2 major economic things are going to take place on July 1, 2014 in this country. 1. The United States as we know it will officially be Bankrupt that means If I were you I would take all the paper savings, bonds, stocks, and put it into hard assets such as Gold, Silver, Diamonds, Rare Gold and Silver coins and keep them out of any financial institution in this country. This news comes from Congressman Rand Paul. I’m an equal opportunity Hater. I hate all politicians never have trusted them. If anyone deserves a chance he does. He hasn’t wavered that I’m aware of in his continued fight for this country. Now that 2. thing I mentioned that will also happen on July 1, 2014 is Obama’s legislation that was passed in 2010 better known as HR Bill 2847 goes into effect. What politicians like to call it so it sounds nice is a capital control bill. What this bill does is tell you how you can spend your money or the easy way to say it is close the banks doors, cut off all credit and basically steal you money. This is the biggest conspiracy in the history of the human race and it’s been in the planning for about 1500 hundred years. You’ll just have to take my word on this. Feel free to Google UN Agenda 21 signed in 1992 by the 1st Bush and about 150 other nations to make the world a better place. Some of the words their throwing around are New World Order, Sustainability and in that document it also states they want to DEPOPULATE THE WORLD to 1/2 billion so it is more manageable. We could feed the world right now for awhile however food is getting low, not the farm land we had in the great depression and one resource we are very short on is the most important of all. DRINKABLE WATER. We were warned by Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley, IKE and JFK. Timbo T is right we are going to have to barter. You won’t have money to pay your water, electricity, taxes, food, etc. Close your eyes for a moment, humor me, picture waking up on JULY the 2nd, 2014 on your way to do grocery shopping, fill your car with gas etc and when you get there and they turn you away because your money is no good except to wipe your rear end on. Now think of how people in large cities, N.Y., Los Angeles, Chicago, Miami, and Obama has cut food stamps off. Mothers can’t feed their children. Can you imagine the looting, riots, killings, rapes, vandalism. You’ve heard blood is thicker than water. Believe it. I just retired as an RN BSN/BS IT. I have 2 college degrees I also served in Vietnam as a Marine Sniper in a ReCon Unit. These people wan’t your land and they have a whole lot more fire power than you do. Google Rex 84 that will tell you about the over 800 concentration camps on U.S. soil fully manned and ready for our arrival. I probably have 100g GB of data on these assholes to know this isn’t a drill. They want to kill 6.7 billion people and you and i are at the top of the list and everyone who commented here. Am I trying to scare you? Yes mam. Is it working I pray to God it is because I’ve seen enough suffering, death, in 35 years of dealing with it that I want to puke. I took an oath in 1969 to Protect and Defend the Constitution of these United States. There are over 325 million guns in civilian hands over 500,000 machine guns It will be guerrilla warfare just how I like it. People everything I’ve said can be verified just look it up, tell your neighbors. If you want more information tell me what it is and I’ll get it to you. My email address is tbuttrum1@gmail.com 49 days, the clock is ticking. PInterest has many people called preppers, ex military with wonderful tips on survival, getting drinking water, food and grow your own food in a very small space. It takes a small child a day or 2 without fluid to die, 5-6 days maybe without food to die. Adults in good health 3-5 days without water, food maybe a week give or take a day or two. If you need me shoot me an email and I will get you going in the right direction. Time is critical. Semper Fi and God Bless America.

  • LeftTheBuilding

    Listen you mopes…the dire predictions are nothing more than billionaire scare tactics.
    The bill, as written, demands disclosure from foreign banks…where billionaires have their money stashed without paying taxes on it, like you and I have to. The billionaires simply don’t want to pay their taxes. So they’ve concocted this nightmare scenario for Obama haters…in hopes that enough suckers will call their senators who will vote the bill down.

    I’d look for hoof prints from the like of the Koch Brothers, robber barons and other assorted Faustian fops before you start buying gold bricks and filling your basements with canned goods.
    Hilarious.

  • bostonkid

    I read the bill, nothing to be worried about. Unless you’re hiding money somewhere over seas.

  • A REALLY PISSED AMERICAN

    I know people that are doing LIFE for crimes that don’t even come close to this crime! Conspiracy to destroy America, it’s people, and the Constitution, and destroy the entire world financially so they (the elite) can put their plans for a ” NEW WORLD ORDER” in motion? They screwed this financial system up to this extreme, why on GOD’S EARTH would we allow them to start all over again, except this time without OUR CONSTITUTION because they also want to write a new constitution on their terms and laws(in a speech by Joe Biden at the import, export banking conference on April 5,2013) that doesn’t qualify an arrest or time in a nut house, what does! I’m pretty sure that sounds like grounds for an ARREST WARRENT to me. I don’t care who you are, you need to be in PRISON or nut house! I know people more sane than these EVIL people, and their not allowed to walk around with the general public! Why have these twisted “ELITE” not been arrested or charges brought up on ANY of them. SERIOUSLY!!

  • Dis Gusted

    “For the love of money is
    the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred
    from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.”
    I Timothy 6 v.10

    Do you know why you’re on your knees?

  • AMH

    What will become of Disability? I can’t work. I have more than one terminal disease. My disability pays all but .64 cents of my mortgage. I need food stamps for food, and Medicare, and Medicaid for my Dr. appts, lab tests, and medications. I have no family for help.
    I’ve How does one survive? I’ve paid into the system since I was 15 yrs. old. I’ve worked three jobs until I was 49, and then 2 jobs when I was diagnosed with Kidney Failure, among other issues. At this point, I can’t work at all. I don’t take the system for granted.

  • DR John Ward

    we need to put china out of buisness

  • HankBar

    Getting all these resources to the right place at the right time takes money. Regardless of what you use for money, no one is going to grow food, harvest it, and haul it to the right place at the right time without compensation right then. There will be no credit. Utopian solutions just won’t work.

  • Reggie Hogan

    It’s nobody’s business how much money I make or that I invest money where ever i please, let alone the incapacitated & incompetent Mis-Fit Hillary-Class Garbage infesting the White House and Congress, None of whom have studied 1 hour of economics, None of them who’re capable of accomplishing anything whatsoever except to steal American’s money and are entitled to Nothing but being slammed behind bars, if they’re lucky…..The U.S. is being mis-run by the most incompetent Criminals in world history….who ALL belong on the receiving end of a Military Firing Squad….

  • BrokeBastard

    Im broke as shit anyways!! So this doesnt have any effect on me!

  • Rachael C.

    Wow, Nathan Merrill. You’re a complete idiot. And you continue to advertise it in this feed. I’m a bit surprised you can see the light of day given your head is shoved so far up your ass. Is your world just one giant colon?

    • Nathan Merrill

      It is now August 4th. The American dollar has not collapsed.

      You lose.

  • tharealist101

    There are only two classes. Nigg.a.s. and the elite. We’re all nigg.a.s, they own the jails, banks, corporations, media and police. We own the clothes on our back and not much more. By end of the year all their pawns will be agonizing over their short sightedness in selling out their neighbors for a few extra notes which won’t be worth much soon. Goodbye America

  • http://batman-news.com Pam

    The federal govrenment is shit. They do not care about the little people. To hell with the government. Burn all politiciance burm in HELL WITH SATAN YOUR FATHER!!!!

  • Scott Messerschmidt

    Heads up! something is going on here our banks are changing names global watch too see if any banks in your area change names

  • wilsonsandy2

    ANYTHING THAT OBAMA COMES UP WITH IS DETRIMENTAL TO AMERICA. HE IS NOT HERE TO IMPROVE AMERICA HE IS HERE TO CHANGE AMERICA TO COMMUNISM. WAKE UP.

  • Nathan Merrill

    Hey look, it is July 28th and the dollar didn’t collapse.

    You guys going to admit to scaremongering and submit a retraction?

  • One Less Problem

    Sorry.. I just don’t have sympathy for a thief.

    Wait … what?

    A new currency law…?

    I must have been like totally distracted or something.